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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend
75 Posts |
 Posted - 05/21/2015 : 06:06:48
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Hello All,
Recently I came across the writings of Paul Eno, famous paranormal researcher,about his experience of how shamans can bring "dead" from another worlds.
Here is the link:
http://www.newenglandghosts.com/articles/backfromthedead.html
And here is the article:
"Nearly four decades of "in the trenches" research has led me far away from the two-dimensional, 19th century vision that most people cling to when it comes to the paranormal. For example, I don't believe that ghosts are spirits of the dead. I don't believe in death at all.
When I deal with the paranormal, and ghosts in particular, I experience a vast "multiverse" in which we (bodies and all) function on multiple levels in multiple, parallel lives. In my experience, ghosts are living beings functioning in close parallel worlds that are just as physical as ours. People who are "dead" here are still living and breathing "there." That's true even if "there" is a different time, a different place or a different way of life.
This begs the question: If we can see, hear, touch, taste or feel across these "world boundaries" during paranormal experiences, can we reach in, literally grab our "departed" loved ones, and bring them back to our own conscious world?
On two occasions in the late 1970s, when my cases were nudging me closer and closer to multiverse thinking, I encountered two shamans of two different traditions in two different parts of the world. Both said that they had known other shamans, many years before, who had literally gone into "the other world" and brought back people who had died -- bodies and all. According to these two men, who were very reluctant to talk about this, the shamans had performed these deeds against their better judgment and only after being harassed, then highly paid, by the grieving families. Allegedly, one shaman, in Australia, had brought back a young boy nearly a year after his death.
The two men I spoke with insisted that these events involved neither reincarnation nor resurrection. The two subjects were literally dragged out of other worlds where they had never died. Fascinatingly, both men also said that the shamans who did it soon regretted it.
The young boy who was brought back knew his parents but not some of his siblings or neighbors, I was told. According to the story, he never again "fit" into the community and ended up insane. The other returner, a dead man in his 20s, the father of a family, seemed confused and frightened, then tried to fit in, later running off into the forest, never to return. The man who told me this story, a boy at the time of the incident, actually claimed to have seen this returner.
Granted, these are stories I heard second-hand nearly 30 years ago. Granted, shamans aren't necessarily more honest than other people. Granted, their stories, as with those in any religion, gather "baggage" over the years. But the very nature of these tales, as told to me, bespoke not campfire stories but solid and recent memories. And they clearly communicated the message that there are some multiverse realities that are so for a reason, and that we shouldn't "mess" with them.
Given what appears to be the nature of the multiverse, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that "returns" such as these are impossible. People disappear into thin air relatively often, sometimes in front of witnesses. Where -- or when -- do they go? All those "spirit guides" or guardians we hear tell of and sometimes feel ourselves -- could some of them be shamans from parallel worlds, trying to reach us?
Similarly, mysterious people appear out of thin air from time to time, not knowing where they are. On a few occasions, they have carried passports and money from countries that never existed, spoken no known language and/or worn clothes of no known fabric.
In the multiverse, all possibilities exist. ALL possibilities. Maybe we should stop asking "why?" and start saying "why not?" "
What do you guys think of the above?
Is it something serious?
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2015 : 07:18:58 [Permalink]
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What do you guys think of the above?
Is it something serious? |
I think it reads like a science-fiction/fantasy novel. |
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Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 05/22/2015 07:33:07 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2015 : 07:39:12 [Permalink]
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And another thing...
Supposing parallel worlds in a multiverse: bringing someone here from one of the other parallel worlds would be kidnapping. Plain and simple.
But all they seem to have are anecdotes, and as such without physical evidence, can be considered nothing more than fairy-tales.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2015 : 16:22:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Alexander1304
What do you guys think of the above?
Is it something serious?
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This is material for those that can hold beliefs that are unsupported by any evidence. "I don't believe that ghosts are spirits of the dead." First off, the beliefs of ghosts or spirits have not been demonstrated to exist or be real in any demonstrable way. The writer w/o any real information about supernatural entities apparently believes they exist and goes further w/o any information to hold differing accepted belief about ghosts and spirits. That being they are not o product of dead people. The article is full of unsupported claims and beliefs. I would bet the writer doesn't believe in unicorns for sound and rational reasons. Those same reasons if applied to Ghosts and spirits would prohibit them from being believed or accepted as existing. I'll quote one late influential writer who wrote, “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” – Christopher Hitchens. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2015 : 12:02:30 [Permalink]
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| The statement "I don't believe that ghosts are spirits of the dead." holds a presupposition/statement of fact that is not in evidence: ghosts. We have no evdience ghosts are anything but the figment of people's overactive imagination. Speculating if ghosts are actually spirits of the dead is to cross the bridge for a bucket of water. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1486 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2015 : 13:30:12 [Permalink]
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| I don't believe in death at all. |
That's sure ignoring much evidence. Brain research has revealed that everything that makes you *you* (emotion, decision making, feeling, etc.) is electro-chemical. Mind needs a host/substrate. When the host dies, the mind vanishes.
UPDATE:
I stumbled across the same post in another forum:
http://sciforums.com/threads/can-we-bring-people-back-from-the-dead.147717/
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| Edited by - ThorGoLucky on 05/26/2015 15:25:49 |
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FinitumEst
New Member
1 Post |
Posted - 05/18/2016 : 21:24:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by ThorGoLucky
| I don't believe in death at all. |
That's sure ignoring much evidence. Brain research has revealed that everything that makes you *you* (emotion, decision making, feeling, etc.) is electro-chemical. Mind needs a host/substrate. When the host dies, the mind vanishes.
UPDATE:
I stumbled across the same post in another forum:
http://sciforums.com/threads/can-we-bring-people-back-from-the-dead.147717/
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Absolutely, I'm at loss to how many people are willing to dump their gray matter even before is dead. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2016 : 08:54:54 [Permalink]
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| No real discussion of any value can take place on the question " Can we bring people back from the dead?" until those commenting can agree an the definition of "DEAD" we can't be sure we're talking about the same thing. If it's when the heart has stopped, then the answer is indisputably YES because it happens all the time in may places all over the world, on a hourly basis these days. Clinically speaking there is no moment or no instant when death occurs, it is a process which occurs over minutes and many more minutes after that. Not until the word "dead" in the question asked in the OP is defined can it have any use to be sure we're on the same page. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
| Edited by - sailingsoul on 05/21/2016 19:23:19 |
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quickthinker
Spammer
Philippines
17 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2016 : 05:03:05 [Permalink]
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| You can't bring dead people back. Once they're dead, they're dead. |
quickthinker |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2016 : 10:04:38 [Permalink]
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We have been freezing human Sperm, Eggs and Embryios and thawing them out sucessfully. While not 100% sucess is being achieved, it is high enough to be a viable option for people today. Patients who are faced with other medical issues who's outcome will rendered them infertile after treatment, have the option of freezing eggs, sperm and embryos so they will still be able to become biological parents to children after a present medical condition will render them infertile. Couples have choosen to freeze embryios in cases, after one of them faced infertility do to medical problems today. They do so as insurance for the day they may want to become the biological parent of a child in the future, after one is faced with becoming infertile. If it can and is being done today with eggs, sperm and embryios who's to say whole bodies are forever unable to be treated the same, like some have placed a bets today on being revived tomorrow when faced with their death.
Originally posted by quickthinker
You can't bring dead people back. Once they're dead, they're dead.
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If freezing human eggs, sperm and embryios and freezing doesn't bring death to them living cells but as of today, freezing whole bodies does, when does death happen? The "DEAD" in your reply has no meaning to me because it has different a meaning to different people and has been redefined over time as medical science has advanced. Your meaning of dead today might not be valid tomorrow, quickthinker. History has proven that to true. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2016 : 20:52:56 [Permalink]
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| I suppose these don't count because the weren't "brought back" from the dead but from the dead they did return. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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neutral
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2016 : 06:19:18 [Permalink]
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| It's impossible to do so but maybe it become a reality in future who knows? what miracle science can come up with. |
Links removed by Kil |
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beetlerod
Spammer
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2016 : 01:54:29 [Permalink]
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| I don't think you could, it only happens in the movies or series maybe (Game of thrones) |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2016 : 18:54:32 [Permalink]
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| What are the ethics of pulling someone out of the afterlife? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2016 : 20:28:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
What are the ethics of pulling someone out of the afterlife? |
Dunno. What are the ethical implications of believing that there is an afterlife?
Some people today claim that we should spend nothing out of the public purse to mitigate climate change, for example, because the Second Coming will occur tomorrow next week next month sometime real soon now.
For another example, some people today claim that they don't need to attempt any reconciliation with other people they've harmed, because all of their sins will be forgiven upon their death, just because of their faith. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2016 : 23:55:39 [Permalink]
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| right, but what about if there is an afterlife. What would be the ethical implications of pulling someone out of it? |
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Can we bring people back from the dead?
