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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
 Posted - 06/05/2002 : 16:44:07 [Permalink]
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You're right. The voices are not in your head, they're definitely coming out the other end.
quote:
Man do you ever have it backwards.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2002 : 17:20:41 [Permalink]
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To repeat myself, am quoting Stephen Shalom again:
'The United States had broken the Japanese code and therefore knew what Japanese leaders were holding out for: they wanted to be assured that they could retain the emperor. Washington, however, was insisting on unconditional surrender, which, as Foreign Minister Togo Shigenori cabled to his ambassador in Moscow in July 1945, "is the only obstacle to peace." Undersecretary of State Joseph Grew, the former U.S. envoy to Tokyo, recommended that the Japanese be told that they could maintain the emperor, but Truman rejected the advice. The Potsdam declaration, which called on Japanese forces to surrender unconditionally, said nothing about the emperor. And the U.S. made no effort to contact Japanese diplomats privately to convey that the emperor could be retained.'
'A plausible argument can be made for demanding unconditional surrender: only by eliminating Japanese militarism root and branch could there be peace in Asia for the long term. This view, however, naively assumes that the victors in the war were not going to be an impediment to peace in Asia. But, in any case, whoever else might be able to advance this argument, the U.S. government could not do so. For, in fact, after dropping two atom bombs, and exterminating a few hundred thousand people, the Japanese offered to surrender on the condition that they could retain their emperor. And the United States agreed, not because it was feeling sorry for the victims of its nuclear attacks, but because U.S. officials believed that it would assist the post-war occupation of Japan if the emperor were allowed to remain. So, with macabre irony, the United States wiped out two cities in order to get the Japanese to accept terms they had probably been willing to accept before. "It is possible," Henry Stimson later wrote, "in the light of the final surrender, that a clearer and earlier exposition of American willingness to retain the Emperor would have produced an earlier ending to the war.."'
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"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn
Edited by - gorgo on 06/05/2002 17:21:13
Edited by - gorgo on 06/05/2002 17:22:12 |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2002 : 17:44:01 [Permalink]
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The ONI intercepted a secret Japanese message sent to their embassey in Russia on the eve of Russia declaring war on them? That's it?!
So Japan didn't offer to surrender did they? They only thing between them and surrender was them dictating the terms of the surrender. The loser isn't the one who gets to do that-as they well knew from all the times that they won.
So you are saying that rather than give up the office of Emperor, or more exactly rather than even ask if they would have to give up the office of Emperor they would rather let thousands of their own people be killed. That's what happenes when you have a god for your head of state.
They had it within their power to end the war and save their people's lives at any time, by surrendering. AND THEY CHOSE NO TO, until thousands were dead. I guess the Shinto god got his style from Yahweh.
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My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to fact, not to try and make facts harmonize with my aspirations. ---Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2002 : 18:24:33 [Permalink]
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I didn't say it was rational, anymore than Truman's behavior was rational. Nevertheless, murder is murder, whether the other side is rational or not.
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They had it within their power to end the war and save their people's lives at any time, by surrendering. AND THEY CHOSE NO TO, until thousands were dead. I guess the Shinto god got his style from Yahweh.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2002 : 18:57:24 [Permalink]
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The problem is, Gorgo, you have a definition of murder that seems to stop at the border of your own skull.
From one of your earlier posts where you pouted that since the Japanese got to keep their emperor dropping the bomb was a waste. So you imply that if we beheaded the emperor it would have been acceptable?
The Japanese did get to keep their living god. He was however impotent and answered to the allied command. Emperor in name only I would say.
I have locked this topic because it was getting too long. Anyone may start another on the same subject if they wish. I suggest that this really belongs in Social Issues rather than politics.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Topic Locked
