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lil_devil
New Member
Canada
17 Posts |
 Posted - 06/21/2002 : 07:07:46
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hi you guys ..i have a subject ...im having more and more reasons to think that taxes on tobacco products are
a form of corruption ...
could it actually benefit man in unrevealed ways? i mean lots of plant products are useless.. but not plants like digitalis
opioids, cannabis, and many others which are always made ito drugs or controled substances but you cant help wonder...
chek out these links
http://www.metronc.com/Volume_III/metro_III_02/editorial/
http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/Aficionado/people/fa1294.html
guess government cant cash in
on this as much as they wish.
Also Chek out this story i have picked up on the net... it makes you wonder whos saving
nature in the world :((
see you all later
REVIEW & OUTLOOK
Green Terror
Earth lovers can be evildoers, too.
Saturday, November 24, 2001 12:01 a.m. EST
They blow up buildings and terrorize civilians. Their propaganda says "the profit motive" and capitalists are "destroying all life on this planet." They operate in "cells" that are difficult to trace.
Al Qaeda? No, America's own home-grown terrorists, the Earth Liberation Front. And believe it or not, since September 11 their attacks on civilization have only gotten more brazen and destructive. Since the media rarely report any of this, we thought you might like to know. We'd also say it's time for responsible environmentalists to speak out against them.
ELF first surfaced when it blew up that source of all modern evil, an automobile, in Oregon's Willamette National Forest in 1996. The group and its parent, Animal Liberation Front, have since taken credit for scores of crimes, their favorite being arson; in 1998 they firebombed a Vail ski resort, destroying $12 million in property and endangering dozens of firefighters. The Portland Oregonian credits ELF with 33 major crimes in just five years and property losses of $26 million.
The horror of September 11 seems only to have emboldened these folks who love everything on Earth except human beings. Just nine days after the World Trade Center fell, ALF members torched a New Mexico primate lab. On October 15 they firebombed a federal corral for wild horses near Litchfield, California. Earlier this month, two homemade bombs were discovered near a Michigan Tech University lab that conducts research for the forestry industry. State police defused the bombs and the incident is still under investigation by local and federal law enforcement. University officials say ELF is a prime suspect.
The weird moral universe that ecoterrorists inhabit is illustrated by David Barbarash, a Canadian citizen and ELF spokesman. He recently told AP that September 11 should not interfere with ELF and ALF's by-any-means-possible philosophy. As for the use of animals for scientific experimentation, he said, "This is a real terror that is inflicted against millions of animals every year in this continent. We agree terrorism needs to stop."
We're not so naive to expect that Mr. Barbarash would admit that ELF and ALF engage in terrorism. But by equating the fate of laboratory rats with human victims of terror he betrays the depth of his own fanaticism.
To get an idea of what ELF really believes, log on to earthliberationfront.com. You'll find how-to primers on "The politics and practicalities of arson" and "What to do if a federal agent tries to question you." Or check out: "Setting Fires With Electrical Timers--An Earth Liberation Front Guide." Incredibly, no one has yet been killed in an ELF or ALF attack, though law enforcement agencies say it's only a matter of time.
Fed up with terrorists posing as activists, a group of Congressmen, headed by Colorado Republican Scott McInnis, has asked the leaders of other environmental groups to sign a letter publicly denouncing the ecoterrorism of ELF and ALF by December 1. None of them have yet done so.
RESPOND TO THIS ARTICLE <javascript:void(popWindow('respond','95001502'));> READ RESPONSES <responses.html?article_id=95001502>
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
 Posted - 06/21/2002 : 09:32:28 [Permalink]
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I think, that it is by now a proven fact, that smoking can cause cancer. This does not mean that everyone, who smokes cigarettes will die at an early age of lung-cancer. The fact that some people live a long life despite being smokers, does not contradict the cancer theory.
But I personally don't think that this means, that there should be laws against smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, sniffing glue, smoking canabis or using whatever drugs people might want. As long they have been warned and they are only hurting themselves adults should be allowed to do whatever they want.
I don't see what taxing tobacco products has to do with corruption. It is not like the money vanishes in the politicians own pockets.
As for possible undiscovered health benefits. I think that the effects of tobacco products on the human body have been studied so indepth by so many different people with different agendas, that I doubt that there is something that has been overlooked.
On the Eco-terrorists. Those people are dangerous criminals, but they are nowhere the same level as al-queada or even some of the other US domestic 'terrorist' groups.
Comparing those few and mentally disturbed extremists with Osama's boys is mostly an act of propaganda to throw a bad light on the majority of non-violent enviromental activists and the environmentalist movement in general.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2002 : 11:05:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think, that it is by now a proven fact, that smoking can cause cancer. This does not mean that everyone, who smokes cigarettes will die at an early age of lung-cancer. The fact that some people live a long life despite being smokers, does not contradict the cancer theory.
But I personally don't think that this means, that there should be laws against smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, sniffing glue, smoking canabis or using whatever drugs people might want. As long they have been warned and they are only hurting themselves adults should be allowed to do whatever they want.
Lars, your entire post is very well said, excellent points.
quote:
I don't see what taxing tobacco products has to do with corruption. It is not like the money vanishes in the politicians own pockets.
 Well, maybe not directly. ???
quote:
As for possible undiscovered health benefits. I think that the effects of tobacco products on the human body have been studied so indepth by so many different people with different agendas, that I doubt that there is something that has been overlooked.
Agreed. People should be able to do what they want, knowing the facts, etc. But it is my understanding that the public pays for much of the health problems of others who smoke.
Logicaly, I don't think there should be a higher tax on smoking than anything else (execpt if it's true that they drain the health system). But emotionaly, I hate those bastards so much I wish the cost of a cigar was so high that less people could afford to polute the air with that foul smell.
* * * * * *
*Carabao forever.
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Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall never cease
to be amused. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2002 : 11:28:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
People should be able to do what they want, knowing the facts, etc. But it is my understanding that the public pays for much of the health problems of others who smoke.
If smokers could suck in the smoke and not exhale I would agree that they should be able to do what ever they want.
But smoking isn't something you can do by yourself. If you smoke then everybody smokes, whether they want to or not. If 'people should be able to do what they want' then they should not be forced to smoke.
I have been sending smokers outside (in the rain and the snow) since the 1960's, and I don't care that much about the health effects.
IT STINKS!
The greasey soot gets on your clothes, your hair, your furniture--everything. The stench stays in your house at least a day for every cigarette smoked. I'd rather smell a rotting corpse than a cigarette.
If an irate skunk chased a contented cigar smoker out of my house I'd consider myself lucky.
I wish Eco-terrorists were blowing up smokers!!
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My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to fact, not to try and make facts harmonize with my aspirations. ---Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2002 : 11:40:48 [Permalink]
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What bothers me is the partnership the state has with tobacco companies. The tobacco companies get to produce a highly addictive product and the state gets to tax he hell out of the customers(addicts). It's a pretty sick relationship if you think about it abd how the 2 are basically teaming up to rape anyone silly enough to start smoking.
 @tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Jesus
New Member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2002 : 16:50:11 [Permalink]
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Hey Slater I take offence to this statment -- I wish Eco-terrorists were blowing up smokers--- As a smoker for some twenty years or as tomic put it an (addict)I have been pushed out in the cold, I have been extorted by the government, I have tried everything to quit and the longest I've made it is six weeks.I can no longer make it through the night without a smoke ,outside I might add no matter what the wheather is like ,and insted of being treated like an addict I get treated like a leaper.I know it is stinky and nasty dut I can't stop!!!!
Eat more Xtian,taste like fish |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2002 : 17:51:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hey Slater I take offence to this statment -- I wish Eco-terrorists were blowing up smokers---...I know it is stinky and nasty dut I can't stop!!!!
You can't stop even though you've made yourself a pariah?
Why do you think that people should put up with your smoking? No matter how good your intent you are still getting your soot all over everything and everyone. The fact that you can't control yourself is the reason they are putting you out in the snow and ice. Don't blame them.
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My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to fact, not to try and make facts harmonize with my aspirations. ---Thomas Henry Huxley, 1860 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2002 : 19:08:34 [Permalink]
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When I smoked I thought it was inconvenient to be forced outside yet I do agree that non-smokers should not have to accept it. What I do take issue with is when states like California ban smoking in restaurants and bars. This is clearly up to the owners of those establishments. I remember hearing that this law was passed in California, at least in part, due to lobbying by restaurant worker's unions. Even so, they were non-smoking(designated by the owners) establishments to go work at or in some completely different industry. No one was ever forced to go into a particular bar or restaurant. To me this was crossing the line.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2002 : 20:53:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
When I smoked I thought it was inconvenient to be forced outside yet I do agree that non-smokers should not have to accept it. What I do take issue with is when states like California ban smoking in restaurants and bars. This is clearly up to the owners of those establishments. I remember hearing that this law was passed in California, at least in part, due to lobbying by restaurant worker's unions. Even so, they were non-smoking(designated by the owners) establishments to go work at or in some completely different industry. No one was ever forced to go into a particular bar or restaurant. To me this was crossing the line.
I agree @. Although being madder then hell at smokers I think I voted FOR that law.
But before they had it, it's the main reason I stopped going to the movies, eating in Beverly Hills or going out as much in public in general.
BTW, @.....you did really finally stop. YEA!
I always remember how polite you were to go outside to smoke when you were over my house. So happy to hear the good news.
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*Carabao forever.
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Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall never cease
to be amused. |
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2002 : 21:43:43 [Permalink]
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Two people in my office have successfully given up smoking since I've been there. The first did so after a hart attack at 42. The second did so after a trip to the emergency room for breathing problems. She now carries around a portable oxygen tank.
Every smoker I know who hasn't been forced to quit as a result of life threatening medical problems has tried to quit numerous times and failed.
You don't need the surgeon general to tell you smoking is bad for you or that it is highly addictive. All you have to do is pay a tiny bit of attention and figure it out for yourself.
I would be happy to see smoking band in all public places (at least in doors). I do feel a certain sympathy for smokers. Most of them picked up the habit as teenagers when they were still to young to really understand what they were getting themselves into. But ultimately, I just don't feel enough sympathy to be willing to breath their second hand smoke.
Edited by - espritch on 06/21/2002 21:45:47 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2002 : 21:09:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
I would be happy to see smoking band in all public places (at least in doors).
What if they are only standing NEXT to a door?
quote:
I do feel a certain sympathy for smokers. Most of them picked up the habit as teenagers when they were still to young to really understand what they were getting themselves into. But ultimately, I just don't feel enough sympathy to be willing to breath their second hand smoke.
My room mate quit smoking the day after he went to my mothers funeral and never put one of theos filthy things in his mouth again. He started as a teenager, and had been smoking around 20 years. Sure it's tough and not everyone can stop 'cold turkey' like that but people do stop. So I don't see why anyone has an excuse that's it's so addictive (that they CAN'T stop, eventually- if they really wanted to).
BTW, my mother never smoked, but she blamed her lung condition(not cancer but other breathing problems) on my father who was a cigar smoker. The house stunk all the time when I was growing up. I HATE cigars and the people who smoke them. They are more selfish than cigarette smokers.
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*Carabao forever.
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Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall never cease
to be amused. |
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Jesus
New Member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2002 : 09:42:25 [Permalink]
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Did I mention that I do not smoke around non-smokers .I did mention that I don't smoke in the house either.My problem is the places they have banned the ugly habbit ,years ago I was told I could not smoke in the seating area at Vet stadium ,I was told you were only permitted to smoke in the corridores were the traffic had to go through a cloud of smoke as thick as pee soup. Quiting is the easy part ,its the never ever smoking a nother cig as long as I live that I can't deal with .I could easily quit if I also gave up Beer,food ,sex,driving,and what ever .Well I'm gonna go catch a smoke ......
Eat more Xtian,taste like fish |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2002 : 12:19:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Did I mention that I do not smoke around non-smokers .I did mention that I don't smoke in the house either.My problem is the places they have banned the ugly habbit ,years ago I was told I could not smoke in the seating area at Vet stadium ,I was told you were only permitted to smoke in the corridores were the traffic had to go through a cloud of smoke as thick as pee soup. Quiting is the easy part ,its the never ever smoking a nother cig as long as I live that I can't deal with .I could easily quit if I also gave up Beer,food ,sex,driving,and what ever .Well I'm gonna go catch a smoke ......
I have been off the ciggies for nearly 6 months now. The hardest thing is when I have a few beers....I miss them like buggery, and I must admit after a big session about 3 months ago I did have one cigarette. I choose to ignore that small indiscretion and count it as a blemish. Once an addict, always an addict I suppose.
It's the first two weeks that kill you, also I worked nightshift for 4 weeks a while ago and I struggled to get through then. I think it's the boredom that does it.
"Damn you people. Go back to your shanties." --- Shooter McGavin |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2002 : 16:53:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
I miss them like buggery, and I must admit after a big session about 3 months ago I did have one cigarette. I choose to ignore that small indiscretion and count it as a blemish. Once an addict, always an addict I suppose.
It's the first two weeks that kill you, also I worked nightshift for 4 weeks a while ago and I struggled to get through then. I think it's the boredom that does it.
Not sure what that means.....buggery, but it sounds awful.
Yeah, it's the "Can't or Mustn't ever" that kind of makes a wall to the goal of what one wants.
If you tell yourself, it's just for the next hour or day...week or what ever time limit you can get to. And then hold out for the next increment of time, maybe that will help.
Once you go so far you will look back and see it is possible to not have the smoke or what ever the habit. That's how I stopped biting my nails years back. Each time I had the urge, I stop for that moment and once they started to grow I didn't want to ruin the progress.
It's also good that you didn't let a little set back cause you to give up as many do use that excuse to not stop or that is to start again.
Keep up the good work.
* * * * * *
*Carabao forever.
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Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall never cease
to be amused. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2002 : 17:01:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Did I mention that I do not smoke around non-smokers .I did mention that I don't smoke in the house either.My problem is the places they have banned the ugly habbit ,years ago I was told I could not smoke in the seating area at Vet stadium ,I was told you were only permitted to smoke in the corridores were the traffic had to go through a cloud of smoke as thick as pee soup. Quiting is the easy part ,its the never ever smoking a nother cig as long as I live that I can't deal with .I could easily quit if I also gave up Beer,food ,sex,driving,and what ever .Well I'm gonna go catch a smoke ......
Didn't you hear, you can go blind having sex?
Perhaps you should quit that too.
If you are told you can't smoke in various places it's only because we nonsmokers love you and want to look out for your health. And are tying to help.
What's Vet stadium, btw?
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*Carabao forever.
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Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall never cease
to be amused. |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2002 : 21:57:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Didn't you hear, you can go blind having sex?
I thought that was masturbation. Well, there's that And hairy palms, but the only thing I gotta keep trimming is my armpits...
quote:
What's Vet stadium, btw?
Veterans Stadium in Pittsburgh, PA. Home of the Steelers football team.
________________________
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7 of your life.
Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...Two more years...
*whine* |
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