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ruel
New Member
USA
18 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2001 : 16:44:43
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Hi everyone!
I'm new to this forum (though not to skepticism), and have a "situation" in which I could use some advice.
I have begun a website project to study ritual weapons: http://weaponspage.homestead.com
Part of the site will be devoted to testing the claims made by some people about the "magic powers" of some of these weapons.
When I first posted about this on SkepticForum at Delphi.com, I was attacked by an individual named Al Carroll who accused my of having a secret, racist agenda of trying to discredit non-white beliefs. I wrote a refutation of his arguments here:
http://weaponspage.homestead.com/refutingrace.html
This Al Carroll managed to get a radical comic book writer to defame me here:
http://www.bluecorncomics.com/stype143.htm
I refuted this guy with a 2nd essay:
http://weaponspage.homestead.com/refutingrace2.html
Now I find that these men, and some of their friends, are threatening me, spreading lies about me to local civic groups in order to "get me fired" from my job as a teacher and "get me expelled" from my university.
Naturally, I have no fear of these threats because they are based on slander. However, I don't think they have the right to threaten me like this and I want to do something to retaliate. Does anyone have any sugggestions? Any options would be appreciated.
Thanks, ruel
PS: For a better summary of the situation, follow the links on this page:
http://weaponspage.homestead.com/critics.html
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2001 : 17:09:54 [Permalink]
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I liked the idea of your site but will need to take some time to read it all.
I noticed that you were accused of a few things but the writer at Peace Party neglected to print the actual transcript of what was said.
I also noticed that you were labeled "New Age" and so were your "buddies" though I saw nothing related to New Age on your site.
The whole argument looked silly. Pehaps the use of the word "Indian" isn't the best, but it's just PC nitpicking to me.
quote:
Since refined alcohol didn't exist in the New World until Europeans introduced it intentionally, to subvert and destroy Indian cultures, why wouldn't we say it's the white people's fault? By definition, the fault lies at the source of a problem.
This statement was absolutely ridiculous! Oh yeah, the only reason alcohol was brought to the America's was for subjucation!!
I'm not exactly sure what to do to help, but these people are refusing to accept facts(http://www.bluecorncomics.com/cannibal.htm)
What is the problem with your investigation? Are these people embarrassed?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2001 : 19:37:47 [Permalink]
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I went back and read some more. I was completely unable to find anything that would or should offend these critics. Was the material in question removed or are these folks finding meaning that simply is not there?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2001 : 21:47:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
However, I don't think they have the right to threaten me like this and I want to do something to retaliate.
I would suggest not retaliating in kind. If you can, consult an attorney, have them traced and bring them up on defamation of character. (It'll be expensive...but...) Have the attorney look at the sights, see if you have a case.
Doesn't look like anything you've done could be considered harassing based on culture or race.
I hope you don't mind...I've forwarded a copy of your post to my sister-in-law. She took law classes as part of her Masters in Public Administration. She may have some valuable advice regarding this issue.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
Edited by - Trish on 06/26/2001 21:56:36 |
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ruel
New Member
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 14:43:01 [Permalink]
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Thanks for you comments, friends. But hey --good news! I went back to Al Carroll's Yahoo! Club to dig up the threats he posted, so that I could forward them to Trish, only to find that they had been removed. Apparently, my complaint to Yahoo! worked. Then again, maybe it's not such good news; I was hoping to get his club expelled from Yahoo altogether.
The worst part is that they claim to be skeptics themselves. Yet it's obvious the only reason they get involved with Native American spirituality issues is so that they can offer themselves instead as "authorities." It makes me sick.
As for the other guy, Rob Schmidt, it's like I said in my essay about him:
"People like Schmidt arrogate to themselves the role of "cultural defender," and think that this gives them free license to take offense at anything, and respond with slander. In Schmidt's case, he seems to think that Native Americans lack the eloquence or intelligence to speak for themselves, so he must be the paternalistic custodian of their values, dictating morality to them in comic book form (maybe he thinks that Native Americans are not "civilized" enough for prose). Because he sees himself as the guardian of minority values, he feels he is qualified to tell a minority like me that I've "sold-out" to the West."
@tomic, my site as you see it is the same as when I first showed it on SkepticForum, except that the section entitled "Ethnographic Articles" has replaced one called "Index," as I found it difficult to organize. There was nothing in the Index, though, except a list of topics I had proposed for inclusion on the site. The site is still in the planning stages, after all.
Now that Yahoo! has yanked his leash, Carroll may not be much of a problem anymore. But I still need to do something about Schmidt, since he claims to speak on behalf of "Native Elders." I am already submitting a proposal for an education conference here in TX next year entitled "Radical Political Correctness in Multicultural Literature: A Case Study of Peace Party Comics" in order to discredit him among fellow teachers. I figure that since I'm an academic (or at least try to be), I should force him to fight on my terms, where I know I can beat him, rather than on the lunatic fringe he inhabits.
But there should be something that can be done in the meantime...
Thanks again for you support. I know I'm gonna like it here at SFN! ;D
Edited by - ruel on 06/27/2001 14:45:24 |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 15:30:08 [Permalink]
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Welcome to the Board Ruel, you'll have fun.
I'd be very suspicious of this Schmidt fellow. I live in South Dakota, and the Native Americans out here are more than capable of speaking for themselves. Perhaps Mr. Schmidt is confusing the role of a mouthpiece with that of editoral comment. I Native Americans I know would probably be somewhat insulted (who wouldn't?) with someone in a self-appointed role.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 23:44:23 [Permalink]
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Ruel, Haven't heard from the sister-in-law yet...but may be the weekend before I do.
The open debate format sounds like a good idea. Tho, be careful of how you come across.
Even if you got them banned from yahoo, how long would it be before they were able to set up shop elsewhere? Then you wouldn't be able to keep an eye on what they're doing. Better to know where they are.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 01:59:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Even if you got them banned from yahoo, how long would it be before they were able to set up shop elsewhere? Then you wouldn't be able to keep an eye on what they're doing. Better to know where they are.
Aye. Good advice, Trish. Reminds me of the old saying: Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.
I think that's how it goes...
"When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good you will not." -Master Yoda
Edited by - James on 06/28/2001 02:02:26 |
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ruel
New Member
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 11:46:15 [Permalink]
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1. Thanks friends. Yes, I figure the best revenge I could have on Schmidt would be to ruin his grant proposal (he actually wants the government to pay for the garbage he writes) with a nice, academically-relevant rebuttal. Not to mention that a conference paper always looks good on an academic CV! ;)
2. If chased off Yahoo!, they would no doubt set up shop someplace else. But if they ever decided to attack me again from there, they would have to refer back to my site, which would remind everyone of the fact that their first Club got shut down. In other words, they couldn't do anything to me without embarrassing themselves even more, and that may be the most effect way to restrain them.
Edited by - ruel on 06/28/2001 11:47:21 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2001 : 12:47:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hi everyone!
I'm new to this forum (though not to skepticism), and have a "situation" in which I could use some advice.
I have begun a website project to study ritual weapons: http://weaponspage.homestead.com
Part of the site will be devoted to testing the claims made by some people about the "magic powers" of some of these weapons.
When I first posted about this on SkepticForum at Delphi.com, I was attacked by an individual named Al Carroll who accused my of having a secret, racist agenda of trying to discredit non-white beliefs. I wrote a refutation of his arguments here:
http://weaponspage.homestead.com/refutingrace.html
This Al Carroll managed to get a radical comic book writer to defame me here:
http://www.bluecorncomics.com/stype143.htm
I refuted this guy with a 2nd essay:
http://weaponspage.homestead.com/refutingrace2.html
Now I find that these men, and some of their friends, are threatening me, spreading lies about me to local civic groups in order to "get me fired" from my job as a teacher and "get me expelled" from my university.
Naturally, I have no fear of these threats because they are based on slander. However, I don't think they have the right to threaten me like this and I want to do something to retaliate. Does anyone have any sugggestions? Any options would be appreciated.
Thanks, ruel
PS: For a better summary of the situation, follow the links on this page:
http://weaponspage.homestead.com/critics.html
I visited your website and have a few questions. It seems that you are interested in claims of magical properties of weapons in general.
I am a Wiccan and this has a different meaning for me. In my religion we have ritual tools. One of them could be a blade of some sort. (My own personal one is a hand made double edged sheath knife) It is given spiritual properties through its contact with the ritual. The ritual tools may not come in contact with blood. (Sorry all you fundies out there, no animal or human sacrifices. Wicca believes such sacrifices to be wrong.)
If you are planning to write about Wiccan beliefs and its connection to ritual blades, I can suggest some books writen by practioners.
"Spiral Dance" by Starhawk
"Grimore of Shadows" by Buckland
Anything by Stanley Masdurak (sp)
Starhawk's only drawback is that she comes off as a little man-hating.
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ruel
New Member
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2001 : 14:36:09 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer,
Thanks for the references. I have the Starhawk and Buckland books; while they are both modern classics of Wiccan literature, and probably represent the closest things Wicca has regarding a standard opinion about its ritual weapons (the athame, boleen, and sword), there still isn't much information on where the ideas come from.
The ritual weapons of neo-paganism, and especially Wicca, are of great interest to me, because they are a unique example of ritual weapons emerging in the modern world, in an age when traditional beliefs (including those about weapons) are dying off rapidly.
While the sword seems to have been borrowed from older Western ceremonial magic, the athame and boleen have proven elusive. Hutton, in "Triumph of the Moon," surveys the most likely theories of origin, but I am equally convinced that the athame is a cousin, so to speak, of the Satanic daggers of the 19thc., having either a common origin or mutual influence in their development. So the common Wiccan arguments that the athame has "nothing to do with Satanism" is not entirely true.
The boleen is even more elusive; people have tried to link it to the golden sickle of the Celts described in Pliny's Historia Naturalis. Myself, I tend again to believe that it's more closely related to the sickle as used in ceremonial magic.
I have examples of each in my collection. I don't have a full pic of my boleen yet, but here's my athame:
http://weaponspage.homestead.com/lundegaardathame.html
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