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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2001 : 22:23:36
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Has anyone been following this? I have, but only sporatically. I've heard so many arguments on both sides that it makes my head hurt.
I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out what all the fuss is about. Humans have been creating hybrids since we threw over hunter/gatherer for agriculture. Is this stuff really as dangerous as the protesters make it sound? Or is it like anything else, including my nailfile, dangerous if used incorrectly or with malice?
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 03:52:56 [Permalink]
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If your incompetant its dangerous.
But it is a new area of study and does have the potential to be dangerous as well as the potential to save lives.
We should go into it, but carefully.
Abondon Drugs, say no to Religion |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 10:46:15 [Permalink]
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No the Biotech firms that are experimenting with crops. Remember when a bunch of, I think it was taco shells were pulled off of grocery shelves? Rumour had it they contained biotech corn.
The Biotech firms claims they are trying to create strains of crops that are rot/disease/drought resistant. The anti-tech people are claiming...gosh, I don't know. Their message would be a little clearer if they'd just state it instead of scream it. Maybe they have a point, I don't know. People who get that emotional and hysterical tend to make my teeth itch. 
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 11:34:58 [Permalink]
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People have been messing with genetics for centuries if you realy think about it. Through breeding programs and cross breeding farmers have been working to create better crops and live stock since they began. In more recent times they have been more efficient at it, grains with higher food output, ones that can survive in areas normaly too harsh for them, cattle with huge meat and milk production.
Direct genetic manipulation is just a more direct, efficient way of doing it. Of course there are potential dangers involved. Look at killer bees, they were the result of and experiment. Though that was from cross breeding and not gene manipulation. But I feel the benifits have been far greater than the damage done.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
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Bozola
Skeptic Friend
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 13:06:40 [Permalink]
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The problem with the altered corn wasn't that it was dangerous, it was that a foodstuff specifically marked as "unfit for human consumption" but it got into our foodsupply. Of course, this is ethically no different than the proscribed pesticide laden food that ends up on tables, or toxin-glazed dinnerware which makes it into the country. We're all used to that, but it doesn't make it any better.
The danger with genetic engineering is the same with every kind of engineering: what sleazy cost cutting measures and shoddy work are the profit driven corporate greed bags going to do?
I just can't seem to trust Monsanto to care, for some reason.
Bozola
- Practicing skeet for the Rapture. |
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sega
Skeptic Friend
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 14:04:47 [Permalink]
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The whole Anti biotech crowd is bashing the whole industry about 50 years too late.
"Bioengineering" has been going on since the Green revolution in the 50's introduced modern farming techniques, hybridized and "engineered" crops, pesticide dependence and overuse of fertilizer.
Modern biotech merely has more media attention today. If we are to avoid bioengineered foods, stop shopping at the supermarket. Its all been messed with.
A concise and clear position statement from these protestors would be nice, so that we may form a rational response to their position.
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 21:23:18 [Permalink]
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Better yet, everybody who is against genetic engineering should stop eating to avoid such dangers involved in consuming genetically-engineered food. In a short while nobody who is fearful of genetic engineering will need to worry their heads about anything at all.
ljbrs
Personally, I do not trust the organically grown food, because the stuff which I have heard is being used for fertilizer is disgusting. Yuck!
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2001 : 21:39:57 [Permalink]
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I prefer the idea of genetically engineered food to organic food or food produced by traditional 20th century methods. Organic food is expensive and frankly doesn't look all that appetizing to me. The other food has some pesticides(and these same pesticides run into the water supply etc).
Mistakes will be made(like the Monarch butterfly problem that seems minor to me) but nature itself conducts its own experiments if you want to look at it that way.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 02:18:21 [Permalink]
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How many ecowackies know that DDT is organic?
Its a good idea to make sure the food is safe as for some reason I don't want rocket fuel in my food.
All things being equal GM food is safer then so called 'natural' food in just the same way that modern cars are safer then older ones (more testing, higher standards, etc).
Abondon Drugs, say no to Religion |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 07:10:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Mistakes will be made(like the Monarch butterfly problem that seems minor to me) but nature itself conducts its own experiments if you want to look at it that way.
I'll try to find a link when I have more time, but this is a deliberate misrepresentation by the anti-GM (genetically modified) foods organizations.
The original report posted the possibility that Monarch butterflies would be harmed and/or their migratory patterns disrupted by making it impossible for them to live in GM areas. ALL subsequent reports and studies showed this to be untrue. If I remember correctly, studies about Monarch populations in GM fields as opposed to non-GM fields showed a slightly higher number in the GM fields (though the difference was statistically insignificant). There has been NO, repeat NO, reports of any butterflies, Monarch or otherwise, being harmed by GM foods.
It's similar to another misrepresentation regarding increased allergens in some crops (I think it was the Brazil nut) that were GM. This report was true as far as it went; the misrepresentation came in when the anti-GM groups left out the rest of the story which was that this was done in the laboratory environment by scientists attempting to see if this would happen. In other words, they had a hypothesis and they tested it; when the hypothesis proved true, that particular GM technique was discontinued voluntarily before any media coverage or public pressure. In still other words, it was the scientific process at work.
My kids still love me. |
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Bozola
Skeptic Friend
USA
166 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 08:45:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
How many ecowackies know that DDT is organic?
Ecowackies? Piss off. Do you think there might be a legitimate reason for wanting to save what little of the world that hasn't been turning into a corporate-mega-farm, mini maul, suburb, stumpfarm, open pit mine, toxic waste dump, or parking lot?
Enough. This is just enough. You are espousing some of the worst pro-corporate bull ever produced. Do you know what is ment by 'organic' in this sense? I don't think so. Are you aware of what herbicides, pesticides, and hormones are being used to produce your non-organic fruit? I've tested the run-off and I've seen the apples all completely encrusted in white powder. You may want to put that crap in your body, I certainly don't. Oh, by the way, I have a degree in biochemistry. That sh*t makes me really nervous.
You want a simple reason to like it? Organic food tastes better and the farms aren't death traps to all migrating wildlife.
Bozola
- Practicing skeet for the Rapture.
Edited by - Bozola on 06/28/2001 08:47:52 |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 13:11:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
You are espousing some of the worst pro-corporate bull ever produced.
bestonnet_00 pro corporate?! Him and I may have some disagreements over some things, but he is most certainly not pro corporate!
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Gambatte kudasai! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2001 : 13:25:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
We hear a lot about how people want farmers to grow organic crops, but when the pesticide-free products hit the supermarket nobody wants to buy them.
That was from one of the above links and it is so true. Yes, a few people buy them, but the averageconsumer wants their produce to be a)cheap and b)appealing visually.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2001 : 02:42:01 [Permalink]
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Me, Pro Corporate?
DDT is quite toxic and should not be allowed on foods.
But it is an organic compound, just like Ethene and Urea.
Any food that is grown using Organic compounds is organic as far as I'm concerned.
Abondon Drugs, say no to Religion |
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