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Slater
SFN Regular

USA
1668 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2002 :  11:15:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Slater a Private Message
Riptor you have to be kidding us. You can't possibly be that gulliable. This guy started his prank in 1958 right after tabloid newspapers in the US started on stories about the Yeti in Tibet.
There weren't Big Foot tracks all over America. They were only in the very northern most part of California. I vacationed there summer before last and all the people who lived there knew it was a joke. A joke they were more than happy to make some money on. Creating the monster was not problem at all. It was the guys wife dressed in a gorilla suit filmed with a "super 8"

Phalcon, they found a clue. They found the big feet, they found the furry "skin" and they found the hoaxers laughing. There were no "renowned scientists" studying Big Foot. One look at the foot print and you could see it was a fake.

-------
I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled
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ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular

641 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2002 :  13:33:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ConsequentAtheist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by a65phalcon

Granted Big Foot is probally a hoax for the most part, ...
... but we shouldn't just discount everything out of hand. After all, much of what we take for granted today would have seemed magical not too long ago. Do you really think that you can make crop circles with Small Feet? Einstein proved that everything is energy, and we all know that energy can manifest itself in different forms and, if you believe in quantum mechanics, is very mysterious. I think that, as skeptics, we should reject efforts to discount things not yet proven nonexistent, remain open to the possibilities which will inevitably unfold in our future, and embrace the true nature of Christ and God, rather than be sold on the BS of the church.

And if all that New Age Neo-Christian gruel fails "for the most part", we always have science ...

For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D.
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Infamous
Skeptic Friend

85 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2002 :  15:35:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Infamous a Private Message
Interesting that so-called "skeptics" ridicule "believers", calling them credulous, and demanding evidence of them. Yet most skeps I've seen accept Wallace's claims as fact, without evidence.

Skepticism? The proper term should be "selective skepticism".

And now I'll probably get some kind of response ridiculing me for my "belief", in order to satisfy someone's need to divert attention from their own obvious hypocrisy. And it'll be pointless. If all skeps are as skilled at logic as they would claim, then I expect better.
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Slater
SFN Regular

USA
1668 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2002 :  17:16:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Slater a Private Message
The evidence was several sets of the "Big Feet", the Big Foot suit, photos of his mom in the suit, and an admission of guilt. What more do you want?

-------
I learned something ... I learned that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.
-Bruce Clark
There's No Toilet Paper...on the Road Less Traveled
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2002 :  22:14:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
a65phalcon
Not to be to absurd, but have any of you considered that there may, or may not be things in this world the we do not know about yet? Granted there are hoaxes, but it seems that most just want to diffuse anything that is outside scientific knowledge.

quote:
Infamous
Interesting that so-called "skeptics" ridicule "believers", calling them credulous, and demanding evidence of them. Yet most skeps I've seen accept Wallace's claims as fact, without evidence.


A point has been brought up here that I think is worth looking at. Carl Sagan, in his "Burden of Skepticism" Says this:
quote:

I want to say a little more about the burden of skepticism. You can get into a habit of thought in which you enjoy making fun of all those other people who don't see things as clearly as you do. This is a potential social danger present in an organization like CSICOP. We have to guard carefully against it.

It seems to me what is called for is an exquisite balance between two conflicting needs: the most skeptical scrutiny of all hypotheses that are served up to us and at the same time a great openness to new ideas. Obviously those two modes of thought are in some tension. But if you are able to exercise only one of these modes, whichever one it is, you're in deep trouble.

If you are only skeptical, then no new ideas make it through to you. You never learn anything new. You become a crotchety old person convinced that nonsense is ruling the world. (There is, of course, much data to support you.) But every now and then, maybe once in a hundred cases, a new idea turns out to be on the mark, valid and wonderful. If you are too much in the habit of being skeptical about everything, you are going to miss or resent it, and either way you will be standing in the way of understanding and progress.

On the other hand, if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish the useful as from the worthless ones. If all ideas have equal validity then you are lost, because then, it seems to me, no ideas have any validity at all.

Some ideas are better than others. The machinery for distinguishing them is an essential tool in dealing with the world and especially in dealing with the future. And it is precisely the mix of these two modes of thought that is central to the success of science.


http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/saganbur.htm

Sagan also pointed out that while we should remain open to new ideas, our minds should not be so open that our brains fall out.

Skeptics often seem closed minded, I suppose. I doubt if the reason is because we are not open to new ideas. It just seems that way to the uninitiated. Many of the claims we dismiss have already been debunked or have little or no supporting evidence. What might seem new to a person who just happened on a particular claim may be old news for us. More often then not the claims we discuss on this forum are of the old variety. Creationism is a good example of that. So is Big Foot.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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riptor
Skeptic Friend

Germany
70 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2002 :  03:28:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit riptor's Homepage Send riptor a Private Message
quote:
There weren't Big Foot tracks all over America. They were only in the very northern most part of California. I vacationed there summer before last and all the people who lived there knew it was a joke. A joke they were more than happy to make some money on. Creating the monster was not problem at all. It was the guys wife dressed in a gorilla suit filmed with a "super 8"

On this year's hominology (big-feet-reserach) congress in Ohio, there has been made a list of sightings, tracks and everything else. Focal points have been found in Oregon, Washingotn State, the Dakotas and California as well as in Edmonton, Canada.
Also I don't believe that the film was a hoax at all - to fit someone into that costume's shoulderposition you had to break his arms!

And additionally, it still is no joke, just because someone tells you, he did it.

It kinda reminds me on the NASA-hoax (you know, we never landed on moon, right?)

Hail the Big bearded Jellyfish up in heaven above.
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Infamous
Skeptic Friend

85 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2002 :  07:32:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Infamous a Private Message
Slater,
I've seen the "big feet". They're evidence, but there's a significant possibility that they were manufactured later (based on the plaster casts already taken) to support his claim.
As for the suit, and photos of anyone in the suit, where are they? Sources, please.
Simple "admission of guilt" is a testimony, and requires conclusive evidence to be scientifically proven.

Another problem I have with the hoax claim is the disagreement of the individual accounts. I have heard four different stories so far:
1.) That Wallace knew the PG film was a hoax, but didn't have anything to do with it;
2.) That Wallace arranged for the hoax, but had somone else in the suit (someone else excluding the mother);
3.) That Wallace arranged the hoax, and the mother was in the suit; and
4.) That Wallace was in the suit.
These accounts are all mutually exclusive, yet supposedly true.
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Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend

Canada
126 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2002 :  22:18:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Legallee Insane a Private Message
I find it hard to believe that even after the admission of a hoax, people like these "scientists" are all still claiming that it's real. GIVE IT UP ALREADY!
quote:
a65phalcon
Not to be to absurd, but have any of you considered that there may, or may not be things in this world the we do not know about yet? Granted there are hoaxes, but it seems that most just want to diffuse anything that is outside scientific knowledge.

I'm pretty sure that if Bigfoots did exist there would have to be more than one, it would only make sense since if there were too few they couldn't possibly sustain a population. I'm also pretty sure that if there were enough to sustain a population, chances are some hick would have tripped over a dead bigfoot carcass out on the back trails somewhere.

--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you."
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Kilted_Warrior
Skeptic Friend

Canada
118 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2002 :  22:30:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Kilted_Warrior a Private Message
One of the biggest believer claims is that there has been no carcasses found because you don't find any carcasses in the bush. That is not true at all!
When I or my dad goes hiking in BC (north of washington state) or here in northern Saskatchewan, I see many dead deer, moose, bear, etc bodies, skulls, or other bones, some look to have been there for many years.

don't tell me the animals in the forest come across a bigfoot body and give it a proper christian burial!

If the Saskwatch did exist, we would have found skulls, ribs, femurs, or illiums, in the bush.
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riptor
Skeptic Friend

Germany
70 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2002 :  03:28:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit riptor's Homepage Send riptor a Private Message
Well, here in Germany, deer is not as often seen as in an area as rich of forests as canada, but still you may see deer every day in the woods. Yet I never saw a deer carcass yet.
Only some foxes, weazels and hedgehogs on the autobahn. And once, a rat carcass in a field. Some doves and crows as well, but they don't live in the woods at all.

Hail the Big bearded Jellyfish up in heaven above.
Edited by - riptor on 12/11/2002 03:30:29
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Computer Org
Skeptic Friend

392 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2002 :  07:59:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Computer Org a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Tim

Big Foot Dead
No doubt he will be resurrescted soon and often.
Like, for example, on this morning's Today show.

Do thou amend thy face, and I'll amend my life. --Falstaff
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Fireballn
Skeptic Friend

Canada
179 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2003 :  16:28:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Fireballn a Private Message
Has any Canadians out there seen the Kokanee commercial where the park ranger dresses up like Big Foot to capture him? That is just too funny!!!!

If i were the supreme being, I wouldn't have messed around with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers 8 o'clock day one!
-Time Bandits-
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Legallee Insane
Skeptic Friend

Canada
126 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2003 :  16:48:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Legallee Insane a Private Message
quote:
Fireballn:
Has any Canadians out there seen the Kokanee commercial where the park ranger dresses up like Big Foot to capture him? That is just too funny!!!!


I love that commercial. The one where the bigfoot dresses up as a man to catch the ranger. I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and such and whatnothaveyou.

--"Only the fool says in his heart: There is no god -- The wise says it to the world"
--"I darn you to HECK!" - Catbert
--"Don't worry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you."
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