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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/15/2004 : 04:43:20
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Senator Kerry has challenged Alledged President Bush to a series of monthly debates.
Me, I don't see it happenin'. Say what you must about Rove, but he is way too smart to let his pet puppy get verbally hanged, drawn, quartered, scourged, and nailed to a telephone pole (not necessarly in that order) by someone who can actually speak, and knows what the hell he's talking about.
But, I'm intrigued. If you could pick a topic(s) for these debates, and set the ground rules, what would they be? I think I'd like to see one on the deforestation and general, enviornmental rape promoted by the administration. There must be a moderator, of course, but only to keep the discussion on topic and break up fistfights.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 21:28:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Senator Kerry has challenged Alledged President Bush to a series of monthly debates.
But, I'm intrigued. If you could pick a topic(s) for these debates, and set the ground rules, what would they be?
1st and only rule:
P Bush must speak proper English. That way he might at least look/sound like he's 1/2 way intelligent. (that is if one wanted not to be embarrassed by our 'leader' of the country.)
Hey Filthy! I'm back!! This visit to Thailand was the best ever!!!
If I was a religious man, I'd say I had one miracle after another going on...it was amazing, everything good that happened.
BTW, I bought a wooden snake that is jointed and moves. Was showing it to a new friend. She seemed intrigued by it as she touched and moved it around, so I asked if she liked snakes. She said 'No' and that her brother died from a Cobra bite. Yikes! I felt so awful. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 05:13:55 [Permalink]
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Hi Snake. Delighted you enjoyed your trip!
As to the Cobra bite, snakebite fatalities are a high percentage result in SE Asia due to many (most?) going untreated. And they are much more likely to encounter a dangerous snake than ourselves.
I'm glad you bumped this tread up. I was going to do it because I really am curious as to what folks think such events could and should cover, even though historicly, presidential debates seem to be somewhat of a stage show and mean little, if anything.
But once in a while, something interesting happens: "I knew Jack Kennedy; I worked with Jack Kennedy; and senator, you're no Jack Kennedy!" It's paraphrased a bit, but I'm sure everybody remembers that, little gem. And the minor case of apoplexy it caused at the other podium. Amusing stuff.
Sadly, the thread has seen no action as yet. I'm beginning to suspect that everybody is already sick and tired of politics and presidents and cabbages and kings, and realizing that the worst is yet to come, are trying to hide.
Can't say as I blame 'em.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 07:10:30 [Permalink]
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I'm a political junkie and I'll definitely watch the debates. I'll enjoy watching erudite, articulate Kerry make mincemeat out of Dubya.
I hafta say, though, that even I am tired of the partisanship, negativity, lies, and just plain meannesss that dominates political discourse these days. America has VERY important issues at stake--issues that to me, speak to who we are as a country. But we hear very little real dialogue on those issues. Instead we get lies, half-truths, sensationalism, and general bullshit.
For example, how much dialogue do we hear about Social Security? It's slowly being bankrupted and may well be dismantled. Why? What does this mean for my generation? Who the frick KNOWS?
How much dialogue do we hear about terrorism itself? We hear mostly fear mongering, anti-Arab sentiments, and jingoism.
Our complex, troubled world is being reduced to sound bites, and I hate it. Dare we hope the debates afford some meaningful dialogue? |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 07:19:23 [Permalink]
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Economy....first and foremost.
Bush will try to cash in on the terror card but it don't wash...
If only 10% of the effort put into Iraq was used in Afghanistan, Osama would be in custody and hopefully the country would have some kind of order....this would be a true indication of a "War on Terror". Iraq has only made more terrorists and that is that
Unfortunately mainstream America, brainwashed by the major news corporations doesn't see that.
Kerry needs to attack the jobless recovery, also the fact that many jobs are disappearing offshore.
Iowa is the key, 200,000 or so job losses and from what I read, no one has won without Iowa. I might be incredibly naive though on this case.
The economy is rooted though and Kerry has to use that. The average American (as opposed to the rest of the world) seems to think that the war on terror is going smashing. Kerry can't win there.
Excuse the rambling, I have had a couple of beers and just was on the way to bed and filthy had to post this. When it comes to politics I have to put in my two cents worth.
I hope I made sense
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 07:30:38 [Permalink]
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I couldn't go to bed without saying this……
Also as an update, we in Australia look to be having an election around October.
We also have a conservative government in power, however unlike America, our economy is flourishing. This puts me in two minds, I vehemently disagree with our foreign policy, however I think the incumbents will do a better job with the economy.
I have six months to decide my direction. A swinging voter if ever there was one.
At the moment though, my disgust with Iraq and the treatment of our indigenous people swings me towards a new leader.
I am lucky though, I have a safe job and no real money worries.
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 08:01:47 [Permalink]
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I still don't see how one is better than the other, and the debates and campaigning will be a way to say nothing in a way that makes us think we have a choice.
Kerry says that those in office are crooks, yet he supported them. Just like Vietnam. He said that the things he and others did in Vietnam were criminal. Fine. What do we do with those that admit their criminality? Run them for president. Same as those that refuse to admit their crimes.
Just amazing. I don't have much hope right now. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 08:31:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
I still don't see how one is better than the other, and the debates and campaigning will be a way to say nothing in a way that makes us think we have a choice.
Totally agree with you Gorgo. It's 'Walden II' all over again.
quote:
Just amazing. I don't have much hope right now.
Don't do anything drastic!
quote:
Renae Posted - 03/17/2004 : 07:10:30
I hafta say, though, that even I am tired of the partisanship, negativity, lies, and just plain meannesss that dominates political discourse these days. America has VERY important issues at stake--issues that to me, speak to who we are as a country. But we hear very little real dialogue on those issues. Instead we get lies, half-truths, sensationalism, and general bullshit.
I'm supprized that you say this....now. It's not any different than it has been for years and years and longer than that.
Also, does anyone think that his vote will make a difference? Or even if the 'right' person gets into office that things will be different? It's all a joke. 'They'(polititions or the news media or whoever) gets us railed up and talking....about WHAT? The same old shit. Has anything changed?
Has YOUR life changed drasticly because of anything the government has done? It's all a conspiricy to make people think something is happening.... and that 'we the people' have a say so.
Note about SS. I hope it will be bankrupt soon. Of course those of us who (were forced to) put our money in it should get it back but the government needs to stay out of peoples lives. And stop people from depending on it for their lives. Think for yourself 1st, and only use other resourses as a backup if all else fails. We wouldn't have all those idiot congressman debating worthless issues if the government would stay out of our lives. Then we'd also have more of our own money instead of paying it to them from our taxes.
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www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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| Edited by - Woody D on 03/17/2004 08:45:34 |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 08:38:08 [Permalink]
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Gorgo....what is the alternative?????
Unlike in Australia, minor parties cannot cast preferences. In the U.S. a vote for the greens is a wasted vote. Here the greens at least have some power. Along with independents they hold 5 seats in the senate. Thus the ability to block some contentious issues, or bare their asre and get royally shafted by the government
If you vote for Nader or others in November, it's basically a lost vote, a protest vote. Noble but pointless.
No one wants Bush, unfortunately Kerry is the only alternative.
At leats he is a democrat who throws a few punches.
P.S. I am still awake and it is filthy's fault. Now I am laying on the couch still drinking beer watching the cricket highlights between Australia and Sri Lanka.
If any one cares, Warnie's taken "5 for" and Gilly is 175 off 210 balls. Murali's is the third person to have taken 500 wickets, but the Aussies look good after 2 days of play. The Pom's, god bless 'em will know exactly what I am talking about.
Not bad about the West Indies for you guys though, you'll impress me more if you can get back the Ashes 
What's cricket you ask??????
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 08:44:42 [Permalink]
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Well, Gezzam, you're not the only one that's told me to vote for Kerry. However, I did what I could to compromise and vote for a Democrat. The only qualified Democrat that's still running is Kucinich. The rest have either conceded or they're Republicans.
I may succumb to pressure and vote for Kerry, but I'm hoping the Socialist Party of Spain takes over. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Woody D
Skeptic Friend
Thailand
285 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 10:00:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by gezzam
If you vote for Nader or others in November, it's basically a lost vote, a protest vote. Noble but pointless.
That's nonsense. I refuse to let anyone make me feel guilty for voting for the person who will represent my views, if he has a chance to win or not. I'm sick of having to think of voting for the one who will win against the one I don't like.
It's a joke anyway, nothing's going to change, no matter who's in office (of the mainstream people, anyway). So, IMO anyone who votes for other than their real choice, just to vote against someone who they don't really like either is as much a fool as they think is the person who votes for the candiate they really want.
quote:
P.S. I am still awake and it is filthy's fault.
Oh good! Let's blame Filthy. What a trouble maker.
quote:
What's cricket you ask??????
A little green/brown bug? Don't know if yours are as large sounding as the ones in NZ but Damn!, I never heard anything so noisy. Was just there, didn't see one but they were all around in the bushes. Sounded like monsters. |
www.Carabao.net
As long as there's, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
Mick Shrimpton
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 10:12:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by gezzam
Economy....first and foremost.
Bush will try to cash in on the terror card but it don't wash...
If only 10% of the effort put into Iraq was used in Afghanistan, Osama would be in custody and hopefully the country would have some kind of order....this would be a true indication of a "War on Terror". Iraq has only made more terrorists and that is that
Unfortunately mainstream America, brainwashed by the major news corporations doesn't see that.
Kerry needs to attack the jobless recovery, also the fact that many jobs are disappearing offshore.
Iowa is the key, 200,000 or so job losses and from what I read, no one has won without Iowa. I might be incredibly naive though on this case.
The economy is rooted though and Kerry has to use that. The average American (as opposed to the rest of the world) seems to think that the war on terror is going smashing. Kerry can't win there.
Excuse the rambling, I have had a couple of beers and just was on the way to bed and filthy had to post this. When it comes to politics I have to put in my two cents worth.
I hope I made sense
Gez,
I wouldn't go that far on the "war on terror is going smashing" in the eyes of mainstream America. Theres a lot of debate and even the moderate Rpublicans are getting vocal questioning the Iraq war and the targets of the focus on terror. Mainstream America is asking questions and debating with themselves about the "war on terror". I will admit that most of the populace is spouting the party line on the war. (I.E. Repubs say it's good. Demos claim it's misfocused.)
Gorgo,
Vote your conscience, dude. I am. I've selected Kerry. Nader or anyone else who gets votes has earned them from their followers. I believe Kerry will get the economy away from the supply side fiasco which collapsed under it's own weight in 1989 and will fix foreign relations. Iraq is done. Nothing left to do but make it a better country and send those responsible for aggression (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld) home on retirement. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 10:14:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Senator Kerry has challenged Alledged President Bush to a series of monthly debates.
Me, I don't see it happenin'. Say what you must about Rove, but he is way too smart to let his pet puppy get verbally hanged, drawn, quartered, scourged, and nailed to a telephone pole (not necessarly in that order) by someone who can actually speak, and knows what the hell he's talking about.
But, I'm intrigued. If you could pick a topic(s) for these debates, and set the ground rules, what would they be? I think I'd like to see one on the deforestation and general, enviornmental rape promoted by the administration. There must be a moderator, of course, but only to keep the discussion on topic and break up fistfights.
I think there should be a member of the Oxford Dictionary on hand to write down all the new words Dubya coins. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 10:21:25 [Permalink]
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Thanks. If I had the money I think voting my conscience would be to leave this country.
Clinton was in on the destruction of Iraq (and Haiti) as much as anyone so I don't think Kerry will be much better. I hope so, though. He at least had the sense to call them crooks.
quote:
Gorgo,
Vote your conscience, dude. I am. I've selected Kerry. Nader or anyone else who gets votes has earned them from their followers. I believe Kerry will get the economy away from the supply side fiasco which collapsed under it's own weight in 1989 and will fix foreign relations. Iraq is done. Nothing left to do but make it a better country and send those responsible for aggression (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld) home on retirement.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 10:24:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Gorgo
Kerry says that those in office are crooks, yet he supported them. Just like Vietnam. He said that the things he and others did in Vietnam were criminal. Fine. What do we do with those that admit their criminality? Run them for president. Same as those that refuse to admit their crimes.
quote:
Gorgo
Well, Gezzam, you're not the only one that's told me to vote for Kerry. However, I did what I could to compromise and vote for a Democrat. The only qualified Democrat that's still running is Kucinich. The rest have either conceded or they're Republicans.
Bush and his coven of neo cons have to go. In my life, I consider Bush the most dangerous president we have ever had. To say that the democrats would be the same is ludicrous. Remember that those
democrats who allowed Bush to invade Iraq were going on intelligence cherry picked or made up by the Bush administration. For them to say "what the hell?" now shows at least some backbone. I do not believe we would be in Iraq now if a democrat had been in office. They are not the same. Want a theocracy? Bush does...
Bush is rolling back environmental protections. He is, under the guise of homeland security, taking away our freedoms while creating a whole new level of bureaucracy. He has eliminated due process under certain conditions that are ambiguous at best. He is giving tax breaks to all his friends. Whole countries are voting in new leaders because the old ones supported Bush. Good will toward America is the lowest it has been since Viet Nam. Maybe lower.
That Kerry can say that Viet Nam was criminal is not the same as saying he is a criminal. Only an idiot would come to the conclusion that everyone who fought in Viet Nam is a criminal. At the time, he was a solder. Also, it is legal, as I understand it, to change your mind with the introduction of evidence that paints a different picture of events than the one you previously held. In my mind, the ability to be able to change your mind is a plus. We rail against religious and political dogma.
So how is it we should also blame those who can step out of that mindset and move on?
The democratic party is not perfect. It is a vast coalition ideologies and they argue among themselves
almost constantly, unlike the other party. That too is a good thing. There is no getting away from the fact that inside deals are made for less than honorable reasons in both party's. OK, what ya gonna do?
Kerry was not my first choice. But Bush is no choice at all. It is my opinion that Bush has to go no matter how much shit we have to eat to get rid of him. He is a far greater danger to this country, and the world, than any run of the mill democrat. In fact, He is worse than most republicans. (There are beginning to be some inklings of revolt in the GOP due to sky rocketing deficits.)
If Bush wins, his win will fall squarely on those who have put their integrity above the best interests of this country. All of those who vote for a third party or do not vote at all can then pat themselves on the back and say, we didn't vote for him, and the other guy would have been the same, even as Bush continues his war on our individual freedoms. What a victory for you that will be... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 11:12:01 [Permalink]
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http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18052
"The case of Jane Fonda reveals the double standards and hypocrisies afflicting our memories. In Tour of Duty, the Kerry historian Douglas Brinkley describes the 1971 winter soldier investigation, which Fonda supported and Kerry attended, where Vietnam veterans spilled their guts about "killing gooks for sport, sadistically torturing captured VC by cutting off ears and heads, raping women and burning villages." Brinkley then recounts how Kerry later told Meet the Press that "I committed the same kinds of atrocities as thousands of others," specifically taking responsibility for shooting in free-fire zones, search-and-destroy missions, and burning villages. Brinkley describes these testimonies in tepid and judicious terms, calling them "quite unsettling." By contrast, Brinkley condemns Fonda's 1972 visit to Hanoi as "unconscionable," without feeling any need for further explanation.
Why should American atrocities be merely unsettling, but a trip to Hanoi unconscionable? " |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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