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satans_mom
Skeptic Friend
USA
148 Posts |
 Posted - 08/07/2004 : 21:47:23
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Tonight I had been diving deeply into the pools of metaphysical thought and come across hundreds of ideas to which I scribbled almost frantically, but also cautiously, into a loved notepad which holds hundreds of my creations. I came across a rather interesting idea that I started long ago, and decided I'd add on a bit more to it this evening as I had been in the particular state of mine that was similar to that in which I wrote the unfinished thought. I am going to copy it directly (aside from the misspelling and the markouts, of course!) and see what you think of it. It may be a little messy, as it was a surge of ideas, however once done I will explain myself.
quote:
There is no such thing as nothing and everything because all elements of this universe including conceptual human ideas, coincide with the physics of the particular "parallel dimension" that we occupy. There is the "reality" of which is possible and the "reality" of which is not possible and human minds cannot comprehend this thought with full view, as we cannot see outside of the "possible" and the, at least imagined, human experience. It is deemed there are two seperate entities that make up this universe, also two that become one in the same as they both ultimately must survive with the other; the void, the nothing, and the infinite, the everything.
[this is where I added in tonight]
-Yet this could only pertain to our dimension, for if there are only two in ours (nothing, everything) would there not be a collision of the two, as best as we can understand, "elsewhere"? If so, the basis of remarkable philosophy crumbles. However, there is no evidence conclusively supporting any of these ideas. Yet, if there are other "parallel" dimensions, surely would they not abide by the common rules as stated of no evidence? Surely within it's own "rules" of there being no other "parallel universes," make it a "superior universe," where are others are a part of this universe, make this universe a "god?"
What I was speculating is the common theory of alternate dimensions, parallel dimensions, that do not particularly abide by our concepts and scientific knowledge. Where life begins not with the presence of carbon, water, etc, but with a completely seperate element we've never discovered, OR, life with no beginning/ no life. I expanded this thought to include our philosophies, our metaphysical ideas of there existing two: the void and the infinite, take for example, the idea that when atoms are broken down, the quarks are broken down, on, and on, you will always come to "something," and that can be called "an infinite cycle." Yet, when breaking the "pieces" down over and over again, you get to the "nothing" that it will ultimately become. Most all concepts of nature, life, law, can be traced down to infinity and nothing. I went off on the idea there is no evidence to support either argument, yet, if there were, the existance of one could ultimately support the existance of the other, "parallel universes, nothing, the void, vs. one universe, the contrast of current thought), therefore eliminating the evidence itself and anything a human could ever conceive.
Could this all be drawn back to "nothing and everything"?
I hope it made some sense. (I've been known to only make sense to myself, most likely by leaving out very valid points that only I seem to be aware of). The notes, if you will, simply charted a mental adventure. I was hoping to share this mental adventure with you. If I'm making sense (and when I reread my post tomorrow I'll feel right to determine this) please share your thoughts.
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Yo mama's so fat, she's on both sides of the family.
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Edited by - satans_mom on 08/07/2004 21:53:25
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satans_mom
Skeptic Friend
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2004 : 21:54:41 [Permalink]
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| Oh yeah, the God part. If there are other dimensions, wouldn't there be a "superior" dimension, one that may qualify as our "god?" |
Yo mama's so fat, she's on both sides of the family.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2004 : 02:40:19 [Permalink]
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If the universe is infinant, then it stands to reason that there are infinant possibilities. And perhaps impossibilities as well.
That's as much as I know about it, and I got that, little bit from Red Dwarf and The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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satans_mom
Skeptic Friend
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2004 : 13:07:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
If the universe is infinant, then it stands to reason that there are infinant possibilities. And perhaps impossibilities as well.
That's as much as I know about it, and I got that, little bit from Red Dwarf and The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Scientists speculate our universe is not infinite. However, if we lived in an open universe, it would be, but there is no way to know at this time. Assuming we do not live in an open universe, we would not have limitless im/possibilities. What we cannot account for is what is outside of our universe--if our universe is not infinite, what's outside then? |
Yo mama's so fat, she's on both sides of the family.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2004 : 06:51:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
How would you account for where our universe ends? I mean, is there some sort of sign that you are leaving our universe?
"You are now leaving the "Universe as you know it". We hope you enjoyed your stay.
Caution:
Universal laws of physics may be changed beyond this point. Passing beyond this point is completely on your own responsability."
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Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2004 : 09:50:06 [Permalink]
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Actually, the sign should say something like "you can't get there from here".
The 'edge' of the universe may be 'right next to earth', but you would not know it.
It stands to reason that if the universe started from a point 'more or less' and it is expanding there there is an edge of sorts. Outside of there universe there is no space (not an absence of matter, but actually no 3D space). There is also no time past that Edge (the 4th dimension).
A simple way to view the universe is that after the big bang the universe expanded like a soap bubble. Our universe is the soap film. We cannot travel into the bubble or outside the bubble, we only exist in the film.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2004 : 10:47:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
If the universe is infinant, then it stands to reason that there are infinant possibilities. And perhaps impossibilities as well.
That's as much as I know about it, and I got that, little bit from Red Dwarf and The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Not a bad start at all.  |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2004 : 15:37:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
How would you account for where our universe ends? I mean, is there some sort of sign that you are leaving our universe?
I understand that there is a restaurant. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Skyhawk
New Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2004 : 15:46:35 [Permalink]
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Well, aren't space and time integrated? If there is no 3D space outside of the Universe, I would expect there to be no time. Just like the beginning when the Big Bang happened, "outside" of the point of the beiginning nothing existed. Time nor space existed. So if this Big Bang expands, wouldn't the same case be for the "outside." In other words, I agree that there would be no time nor space, but I can't say for sure. I think furshur's analogy of the bubble is an excellent explanation. If the Universe was mapped out in a space-time graph, our Universe would be a like a soap film. Though now I have a question, would all the points inside/outside the film of the bubble would be undefined?
As for the philosophy thing, it's kind of odd and I don't think I really follow your thoughts fully. So all I can say is that your philosophy reminds me of Calculus. :P |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2004 : 11:57:16 [Permalink]
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Luckily we will never have to worry about what lies outside. The universe expands faster than the speed of light so it is assumed that nothing can even reach an 'edge' no matter how long you tried. (the Edge is where nutrinos go to die IMO. ) Just as we will never see the center of the universe or what lies on the oppisite side of the universe, its just too damn far. that and light did not exist 15 billion years ago so anything outside of that is effectivly invisible.
In short we can only speculate. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2004 : 12:32:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Ricky said:
While I do agree with the fact that there would be no 3d space (as that is what our universe is, no?), I don't really agree with saying there is no time. Unless there is some way that you arrived at this conclusion that I am not aware of? Is there logic reasoning that time would only exist in our universe?
Time is nothing more than the 4th dimension in our "4 dimensional space time continuum". Therefore if you agree that the first 3 dimensions do not exist outside of our universe why would you have a problem with the 4th dimension - time?
I do agree with the statement 'proceed with caution'. We do not know what is outside of our universe.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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