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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2004 :  13:40:29  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
I have a friend (heh, no its not me) who has had flashbacks for the first time today, multiple times. She said they occured for "1 second" (which I interpret as a short time, not exactly 1 second) at a time. She described them as being both emotional and perceptual, that is she felt as if she was actually there and she could could actually see things. Her description of them was very vague, and I get the feeling this is because her memory of them has either faded or it really never was there. She said that they were not traumatic instances but instead things from her past which were basically everyday and normal, nothing to note as being special.

She is a regular drinker (ibasically, think of your average college student) and has done pot once in her life about a week ago. However my knowlege is that neither of these can lead to flashbacks such as these. Is this correct?

She said that the night before she was thinking of times back home, just basically past memories. Could this be sort of like a dream that had just occured in the day? Thats the feeling I got when hearing the description.

I have done some searching on the internet, but mostly what I find is that flashbacks are caused by either drugs or traumatic events. This would not describe the situation here, so maybe these aren't flashbacks?

Any ideas guys?

Thanks.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov

H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2004 :  14:42:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

I have a friend (heh, no its not me) who has had flashbacks for the first time today, multiple times. She said they occured for "1 second" (which I interpret as a short time, not exactly 1 second) at a time. She described them as being both emotional and perceptual, that is she felt as if she was actually there and she could could actually see things. Her description of them was very vague, and I get the feeling this is because her memory of them has either faded or it really never was there.

Well, drug flashbacks aren't the same thing. Those aren't memories. Drug flashbacks are a change in perception due to chemical imbalance. For instance, someone who did a lot of LSD might have a drug flashback where their heart would race, the room might spin, feelings of panic overwhelm them, etc.

The "flashbacks" your friend seems to be speaking of sound memory related. I think I know what she's talking about. I've come think of them as "twinges." Essentially it's a powerful, yet vague sensation that seems to hit me out of nowhere. Often they are emotionally-charged and sometimes are accompanied by a flash of sound or half-formed memory. It's almost like a deja vu feeling, but it fades so quickly (one second is about right, maybe even a bit shorter than that) that you have literally no time to analyze what just happened. I'm always left with a vague feeling of just having been jolted out of the present momentarily, and left feeling that some connection was almost made.... But by then it's gone. I used overanalyze these things, thinking I was failing to remember somthing potentially important.

I don't pay them much attention now. It doesn't happen very often, but I think that's what she might be referring to, or something similar anyway. Exercise in futility to try and make sense of them. I just think of them as mental hiccups or twinges like I said. Some neuron fired and almost retrieved a memory but then blew a fuse. Nothing to worry about.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 10/13/2004 14:47:48
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2004 :  06:13:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

I have a friend (heh, no its not me) who has had flashbacks for the first time today, multiple times. She said they occured for "1 second" (which I interpret as a short time, not exactly 1 second) at a time. She described them as being both emotional and perceptual, that is she felt as if she was actually there and she could could actually see things. Her description of them was very vague, and I get the feeling this is because her memory of them has either faded or it really never was there. She said that they were not traumatic instances but instead things from her past which were basically everyday and normal, nothing to note as being special.

She is a regular drinker (ibasically, think of your average college student) and has done pot once in her life about a week ago. However my knowlege is that neither of these can lead to flashbacks such as these. Is this correct?

She said that the night before she was thinking of times back home, just basically past memories. Could this be sort of like a dream that had just occured in the day? Thats the feeling I got when hearing the description.

I have done some searching on the internet, but mostly what I find is that flashbacks are caused by either drugs or traumatic events. This would not describe the situation here, so maybe these aren't flashbacks?

Any ideas guys?

Thanks.



I have had momentary flashbacks to half-remembered daydreams or dreams from 20-30 years ago. They happen, but I don't pay any attention to them unless it becomes recurring on the same subject. Then I analyze what I can remember to find out what my subconscious is so damned concerned about. Mostly, it's about the emotion. The visuals usually cloud the issue.

During the time of the flashback, It seems that I can see, hear, and am emotionally connected to the event. The things that are missing are smell and touch. Thats what tips me off that it is a flashback.

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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2004 :  08:05:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Drug flashbacks from LSD are, as stated above, a perceptual change. It's as if you were suddenly under the influence of the drug again. To my knowledge, alcohol and THC cannot cause this type of flashback. LSD remains persistent in your body for a very long time, and if you are a frequent user (like with alcohol, but a much different phisiological mechanism) you require more of the substance to generate the same effect.

The drug flashbacks are very different from post-traumatic stress flashbacks. These are a sudden return of a powerfull memory, usually with the emotion you were experiencing at the time... like fear.

With both kinds of flashback, not everyone gets them. Some people who have been frequent users of LSD never get a flashback, and some who were very infrequent users get them. Go figure. Same for traumatic stress. Some people get flashbacks, some don't.

What your friend describes doesn't sound like anything harmfull. If it gets to be something that is causing her to experience overwhelming emotions (like fear or something), or it interferes with daily activities (like class or driving) tell her to go see her family doctor.

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2004 :  08:33:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
You say these flashbacks occurred for the first time today and happened multiple times. It sounds like they may be stress induced or a lack of sleep. My guess would be that they were stress induced.
Of course my diagnosis is about as reliable as Lucy's psychatric advice in the comic Peanuts.



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2004 :  08:33:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
To my knowledge, alcohol and THC cannot cause this type of flashback.
I don't know about alcohol, but I've been told that THC sometimes get stored in fat, like the kind found in the cardio-vascular system. If particles of THC is stored, they can stay in the system for more than a month before being released back into the bloodstream.
A policeman working narcotics said so, and at the time I didn't see any reason to doubt him.

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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2004 :  08:55:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
I have never met anyone who has ever experienced a MJ induced hallucination (I know a bunch of em), so I would imagine if THC was rereleased into the body it might make you crave cookies but not see or hear things.

It may be a form of narcolepsy called hypnogogic hallucinations, although I think this only happens when you are just falling asleep or waking up, generally what most alien abductions are linked to.

I had this problem when I was younger, I would fall asleep and start dreaming, I would then open my eyes and become conscoius. I would be in sleep paralasis yet wide awake viewing my room unable to move. The first few times it happened were very scary because I didnt know WTF was going on, when first awakened I would see dream images in my room and could not discren them from reality, then after 10 seconds or so I would realize what was happening and wake myself up. These waking dreams were very real to me, including daylight, persons, vivid sounds and objects in the room becoming other things. I self-diagnosed myself and started sleeping on my stomach and it stopped happening.

More likely its just a fluke thing, an actual brain fart.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2004 :  23:51:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

quote:
Originally posted by Dude
To my knowledge, alcohol and THC cannot cause this type of flashback.
I don't know about alcohol, but I've been told that THC sometimes get stored in fat, like the kind found in the cardio-vascular system. If particles of THC is stored, they can stay in the system for more than a month before being released back into the bloodstream.
A policeman working narcotics said so, and at the time I didn't see any reason to doubt him.

Marijuana doesn't cause hallucinations, perceptual distortions yes, but not hallucinations. And it isn't released in active amounts from stored fats, it just shows up in drug tests for a long time after the last dose.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2004 :  23:57:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
A person who drinks daily can actually be addicted. But we are talking many drinks a day for many years, say through high school. Withdrawals cause hallucinations. More often than not the hallucinations are things likes bugs crawling on you rather than flash backs.

Belladonna alkaloids cause hallucinations. An overdose of Dramamine would do it. So do other drugs in some people, an idiosyncratic side effect, meaning some have it but most don't. Prednisone can do that.

Most likely what she describes as flashbacks aren't real hallucinations. If they are, and there is no obvious explanation, she needs to see a doctor to be checked out.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2004 :  00:01:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Thanks guys.

quote:
I don't know about alcohol, but I've been told that THC sometimes get stored in fat, like the kind found in the cardio-vascular system. If particles of THC is stored, they can stay in the system for more than a month before being released back into the bloodstream.


This is correct, I've heard that the average amount of time that pot stays in your body is 6 months, but this will only show up in a blood test. It won't show up in a urin test after a month.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2004 :  00:23:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
This is correct, I've heard that the average amount of time that pot stays in your body is 6 months, but this will only show up in a blood test. It won't show up in a urin test after a month.

When I went in for a drug test they snipped my hair. It has the same time window (about six months, or until your hair grows out) but no needles.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 10/15/2004 00:23:55
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2004 :  18:49:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
The hair/fingernail test for substances is not a good way to test.

And you can test (on a urine test) negative for THC within 12 hours of smoking.... (from experience )

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Edited by - Dude on 10/15/2004 18:49:58
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2004 :  23:34:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
And you can test (on a urine test) negative for THC within 12 hours of smoking.... (from experience )


Do you have sources on this? I've always heard that it was a month for a urine test, I'll try to find some for this position.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/16/2004 :  13:11:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Drug screens depend on the sensitivity of the test. I wouldn't count on a 12 hour waiting period. Also, the longer you have smoked, the more THC that might be stored, thus the longer you might test positive.

But on this release of stored THC, just don't anyone confuse that for a burst of stored drug being released. It is going to leach out slowly. I don't know the effects of a crash diet on release, but it still wouldn't cause a flashback or an effect like that of smoking more pot.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 10/16/2004 13:12:23
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