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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2004 :  08:29:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
nice

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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tkster
Skeptic Friend

USA
193 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2004 :  10:46:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send tkster a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Starman
From antievolution.org


That site means nothing to me. If Gould and others admit that Haeckel was fraudulant like I alluded to in the Well's book, then a website means nothing. Feel free to read Wells book, I'd personally like to see the Research notes dealt with.

The website is trying to make it sound like there were two enemies and this had to do with them. However, this is from Haeckel's own words in a letter to Münchener Allegemeine Zeitung:

quote:
A small portion of my embryo-pictures - possibly 6 or 8 in a hundred - are really falsified


Also from Wells - this being before the trial. The entire chapter gives evolutionist sources and creationists sources showing that Haeckel's claims were falsified. Showing a website that still defends him, suggests that some evolutionists don't mind being dishonest. Keep it up, but you and they are the reason why there are Creationists.

I guess some of us want to be honest to our audience. As for the University of Jena, I have contacted them about getting information whether there was a trial or not; if there was, they should have it on file. In other words, if that site is baloney, it will be exposed as lying as well - and I am sure Creationists will eat their heart out.

All you've said so far is CREATIONISTS ARE LYING, and presented only a website for your back up. I have presented a critique, and the only thing you have for a rebuttal is to call him a liar. Sorry, prove it - I want to see documented sources. And like I said, If the University of Jena has it on file, this lie will be more than exposed.

Who's lying? You or the Creationists? As Dr. Held, a development biologists at TTU put it, there's no reason to teach Haeckel as modern embryology is not based on fraudulant claims. That's honest.

quote:
And, I like to piss the fundies off, now and again. I do it as a favor to them. It keeps their hearts beating and their attention in focus.


Pardon me for being melioristic, but as a journalist and scientists, I am not trying to make anyone mad but help people see the truth. I do so in a kind way, not in a way to piss them off.

It's attitudes like that on both sides that make me wonder if either side is being honest or is just trying to win a debate.

tk
Edited by - tkster on 12/10/2004 10:48:16
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2004 :  11:43:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Pardon me for being melioristic, but as a journalist and scientists, I am not trying to make anyone mad but help people see the truth. I do so in a kind way, not in a way to piss them off.

Ah, but I am neither a journalist nor a scientist and it is unlikely that I'll become either at this late date. So, I'll jack the mendacious bastards up whenever I take the notion.

That might not please you, but you're just going to have to learn to live with it. And whilst you're learning it, I think you will find that no matter how softly and generously you speak, they will repay you with nothing but vilification for your views.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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tkster
Skeptic Friend

USA
193 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2004 :  13:01:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send tkster a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

quote:
Pardon me for being melioristic, but as a journalist and scientists, I am not trying to make anyone mad but help people see the truth. I do so in a kind way, not in a way to piss them off.

Ah, but I am neither a journalist nor a scientist and it is unlikely that I'll become either at this late date. So, I'll jack the mendacious bastards up whenever I take the notion.

That might not please you, but you're just going to have to learn to live with it. And whilst you're learning it, I think you will find that no matter how softly and generously you speak, they will repay you with nothing but vilification for your views.





Possibly. But as long as I am kind in my demonstration of the truth, then others will know that I never turned to hostility. It's like when Hovind attacked River, many christians were upset because although Hovind is a christian, his attack was wrong.

That's the goal, to speak kindly and get a harsh return, will let people intelligent know that they are the real enemy, not us.

tk
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2004 :  13:18:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Unfortunately we've been doing that for a hundred years TK and it hasnt gotten any better, in fact an arguement could be made for 'getting worse'. Hell Geller was shown to be a fool and a fraud on the tonight show thirty years ago, and people still follow him blindly.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2004 :  14:47:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by tkster

quote:
Originally posted by filthy

quote:
Pardon me for being melioristic, but as a journalist and scientists, I am not trying to make anyone mad but help people see the truth. I do so in a kind way, not in a way to piss them off.

Ah, but I am neither a journalist nor a scientist and it is unlikely that I'll become either at this late date. So, I'll jack the mendacious bastards up whenever I take the notion.

That might not please you, but you're just going to have to learn to live with it. And whilst you're learning it, I think you will find that no matter how softly and generously you speak, they will repay you with nothing but vilification for your views.





Possibly. But as long as I am kind in my demonstration of the truth, then others will know that I never turned to hostility. It's like when Hovind attacked River, many christians were upset because although Hovind is a christian, his attack was wrong.

That's the goal, to speak kindly and get a harsh return, will let people intelligent know that they are the real enemy, not us.

tk

I never get hostile; only return the ridicule they hand out and point out the lies they tell. It really irks them that the heretic won't fold at the wave of a Bible and the quote of a verse.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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