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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 12/14/2004 : 11:32:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
quote:
Christmas in our family usually consists of the common secular things, a Christmas tree, presents, Santa
Uhhh, those things aren't quite what I would call secular.
I would not call them Christian. The bible does not talk about Santa or a tree with presents under it as far as I know. These things do not have anything to do with celebrating the birth of Jesus. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 11:50:07 [Permalink]
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| I just love my threads even if you guys don't sometimes. Christmas is a symbolic season of the returning of the Sun. Whether you call that sun Mithra, Jesus, Helios, etc. It's symbolic meaning is the same. No more darkness, the returning of life, crops, warmth. We call it Yule in our house. |
Storm |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 11:56:53 [Permalink]
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There is of course alot of symbolism in the Jesus birth myth.
The birth of Jesus is an example of the 'exposed infant' motif. This was a very common motif. Other examples are; Moses set adrift in the Nile, the founders of Rome being raised by a wolf and Steve Martin being born a poor black child.
The star over the barn is typical of celestial events such as comets heralding monumentous events like the birth or death of a king.
The city of David has to do with the prophesy of Jesus being a descendent of David. This still cracks me up. The bible traces the ancestory from David to Joseph to prove that Jesus is a descendet of David and then forgets (I guess) that Jesus and Joseph aren't related.
Of course the whole half man, half God deal is has always played very big in the ancient neareast.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 12:00:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Christmas is a symbolic season of the returning of the Sun. Whether you call that sun Mithra, Jesus, Helios, etc. It's symbolic meaning is the same. No more darkness, the returning of life, crops, warmth. We call it Yule in our house.
But... do Helios and Mirthra hate homosexuals as much as Jesus...
I think not.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 12:11:56 [Permalink]
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| Whoever told you that Jesus hates homosexuals is wrong. Could it have been the Catholics or the Baptists? The theology of Jesus Christ is unconditional love. Everyone is loved. Although I do not necessarily believe in the whole philosophy of sin and all. although it can be related to karma or cause and effect? |
Storm |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 12:15:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
So here we are the twelve days of Christmas. But what does that mean? When I was a little girl I once heard Rudolphs bells upon my roof, as I grew into my teens the Lutheran Christian Theology dominated my beliefs Jesus is the Reason for the Season. Now older and wiser I have learned that the tradition of Christmas has roots longer than that of Christians and Jesus. My family and I celebrate Yule like our Ancient Ancestors of the Nordic race. Although my Christian beliefs have not been completley forgotten. I wonder what all you celebrate in this time and what it means to you. When I listen to Handels Messiah it is like the divine speaking. Any Holiday comments?
I celebrate Yule, the rekindling of the Sun. Just a nature festival celebrating the return of the Sun. We light candles and celebrate the turning of the seasons.
Of course, this has no scientific basis, but it does have a spiritual one for me. It celebrates the earth beginning to wake up from it's winter slumber.
We're celebrating it December 21st.
And we're getting a bunch of family over to my place for Christmas. We've got a 12 pound bird and all the fixins. I've selected a really nice three year old Riesling for dinner. Should go well with the bird and fixins. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 12/14/2004 12:20:32 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 12:18:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
quote:
Christmas is a symbolic season of the returning of the Sun. Whether you call that sun Mithra, Jesus, Helios, etc. It's symbolic meaning is the same. No more darkness, the returning of life, crops, warmth. We call it Yule in our house.
But... do Helios and Mirthra hate homosexuals as much as Jesus...
I think not.
Jesus makes no comment on homosexuals. You are confusing Levitican Law (which in this case probably refers to Molech worship, not homosexuality) with the teachings of Jesus. A lot of fundies do that, too. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 12:49:11 [Permalink]
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http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm
I could find no menton by jesus either, plenty of others though.
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 13:13:18 [Permalink]
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My daughters will cook the Christmas dinner. I am informed that it will be crown pork rib roast for which I will do the butcher work, with stuffing in the center of it, boiled and mashed turnips, twice-baked baked potatos, homemade cole slaw, and sweet potato pie if there's still room for it, which is unlikely. And lots of gravy seasoned lightly with home grown chilis (un-chilied made seperatly for the little ones).
This will be followed by eggnog, a foul substance that I devoutly loath.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 13:36:56 [Permalink]
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Sounds yummy. I'd describe my typical xmas dinner, but the english escapes me  All I do know it's that we'll be full of those teeth-breaking, nut-like stuff that taste like wood and that I hate with a vengeance... |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2004 : 14:11:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Sounds yummy. I'd describe my typical xmas dinner, but the english escapes me All I do know it's that we'll be full of those teeth-breaking, nut-like stuff that taste like wood and that I hate with a vengeance...
Actually, I like most of the latin foods I've tried, even the unidentified crunchy stuff.
I have also been placed in charge of making the stock for the virtual ocean of gravy my kids are planning. It takes a couple of days, sometimes three. I'll very slowly simmer, in a little water, down a couple of pounds of meaty neck bones and some smoked hocks until almost nothing is left but bones, fat and scraps. then I'll add the amount of water about necessary for the finished gravy and chill it until the fat solidifies on top. This will be skimmed off and given to the cat and the 'possum, both of whom love Christmas for obvious reasons. It's a wonder they don't have seriously clogged arteries. Then it's back to the stove to simmer in the milder spices and some onions for a few hours. After that, the bones and whatever skin left from the hocks are fished out and it's ready to be made into the finished product. My digs will smell wonderful throughout the whole process.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 00:08:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
The theology of Jesus Christ is unconditional love.
that depends on who you talk to.... rofl. There are PLENTY of christians who thrive on hate.
And filthy, I'm commin over to your house for xmas dinner  |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2004 : 05:39:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Christmas Holiday = Christ Mass Holy Day, some folks seem to let presents cloud their vision on that issue. Oh and see the red states Santa thread on the link between Jesus and Santa, notably that they require faith in something you will never ever see, ever.
I suggest a critical thinking day for your children, set up various experiments for your kids and have a gift for each one. It may take them months to solve some of them but they will learn vital skills and hopefully thank you for it on inaguartion day. Damn thats a good idea, good thing I dont have any kids to do all that work for.
SFN has been a great source of entertainment, but sweet Jesus. I used to live in Singapore. And all the Muslims, Hindus, Buddishts, atheists etc I knew would (to some degree) celebrate Christmas. What does it matter that it's a major Christian holiday? Can't we just have fun?
That's also the worst Christmas idea I've ever heard. If you had kids, they would hate you. 
I for one will be having dinner with friends, drinking and refraining from arguing with Christians and telemarketers trying to sell products based on bad science.
Have a Merry Christmas  |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2004 : 03:11:39 [Permalink]
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Welcome to SFN woolytoad!
I agree, a lot of traditions have religious origin, so what?
They have other values for me (and I guess for most, even those with religion)
Would the world or my life be better if I refuse to participate in anything tainted by religion?
"The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it!"
-- Abe Simpson
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