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 Embryo granted "person" status
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2005 :  20:50:33  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Where are the cries of "activist judge!" now?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6935477/

Un-freakin-real.

While I realize there are ethical issues with regards to embryos, this is going WAY WAY to far.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth

Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2005 :  00:49:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
Why does a certain song from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life come to mind?


"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2005 :  01:33:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
And I wonder who appointed this activist judge or whether he was elected? I guess if you have judges trying to keep their 10 commandment monuments in their courtrooms things like this are to be expected as well. Let's just hope this guy meets the same fate as Judge Moore, fired.

Here's a poll from the same news site:
quote:
Should a test-tube embryo have the same rights as a person? * 2920 responses
Yes
36%
No
59%
Not sure
5%
At least common sense is still in the majority.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/10/2005 01:37:05
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2005 :  02:00:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
The judge has so far just refused to dismiss the case. He might want to set a precedent.
We will have to see what his ruling will be...

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
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Stargirl
Skeptic Friend

USA
94 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2005 :  15:34:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Stargirl a Private Message
Why should it be a surprise that the courts would declare an embryo a person?

The courts declared that a corporation is a person and that was one hundred and twenty years ago.

By the way, a corporations status as a person is being used ever-increasingly to thwart all sorts of laws and regulations.

Not that I believe that a person status for embryos is valid I just wanted to point out that crazier things are already part of this nations laws.

Edited to fix links

If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him - Voltaire
Edited by - Stargirl on 02/10/2005 15:37:52
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2005 :  01:00:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Stargirl

Why should it be a surprise that the courts would declare an embryo a person?

The courts declared that a corporation is a person and that was one hundred and twenty years ago.

By the way, a corporations status as a person is being used ever-increasingly to thwart all sorts of laws and regulations.

Not that I believe that a person status for embryos is valid I just wanted to point out that crazier things are already part of this nations laws.

Edited to fix links


So should we charge Ken Lay with wrongful death of a corporation?
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2005 :  02:09:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Stargirl

The courts declared that a corporation is a person and that was one hundred and twenty years ago.
A corporation is a juridical person which differs from a natural person.
I would not blame unjust, bad or wacky laws on this useful principle.
(I must admit that I'm not familiar with US law, but I doubt it differs much from ours on this subject.)

This is the fallacy of equivocation.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2005 :  03:35:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
This is the fallacy of equivocation.

Heh. Sort of like the proofs for God's existance
quote:
TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT
(1) If reason exists then God exists.
(2) Reason exists.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


With the religious right currently in ascendence, it is small suprise that these rulings come down. The really bad part is that American science in general is taking a beating and this is only a small symptom of a much larger malady.

Ken Lay on trial for murder.... I like it. How many people, sick and elderly, died due to the Enron inspired power shortages in CA a while back?


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2005 :  07:58:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

quote:
Originally posted by Stargirl

Why should it be a surprise that the courts would declare an embryo a person?

The courts declared that a corporation is a person and that was one hundred and twenty years ago.

By the way, a corporations status as a person is being used ever-increasingly to thwart all sorts of laws and regulations.

Not that I believe that a person status for embryos is valid I just wanted to point out that crazier things are already part of this nations laws.

Edited to fix links


So should we charge Ken Lay with wrongful death of a corporation?



Nah, charge him with murder of a person. (The corporation Enron)

And we can get that mass murderer Walmart, too.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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tkster
Skeptic Friend

USA
193 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2005 :  10:38:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send tkster a Private Message
This is a good thing. Of course, I'm a pro-life Libertarian.

tk
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2005 :  23:28:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
This is a good thing. Of course, I'm a pro-life Libertarian.



It's a MORONIC thing, especially when you consider the implications.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2005 :  02:00:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

quote:
This is a good thing. Of course, I'm a pro-life Libertarian.



It's a MORONIC thing, especially when you consider the implications.



No kidding. So what, we do research on embryonic stem cells and get charged with child abuse?

Of course the hypocritical right is still conveniently ignoring this particular 'activist' judge's decision.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2005 :  09:19:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

quote:
Originally posted by Dude

quote:
This is a good thing. Of course, I'm a pro-life Libertarian.



It's a MORONIC thing, especially when you consider the implications.



No kidding. So what, we do research on embryonic stem cells and get charged with child abuse?

No, with murder when the stem cells are disposed of.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2005 :  12:50:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
At least when (if) this ruling is overturned, it will forever say that embryos are not a human life.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2005 :  13:45:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

At least when (if) this ruling is overturned, it will forever say that embryos are not a human life.

That's an interesting way to look at it. Your plan could backfire though. That would be very bad.
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mike alexander
New Member

11 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2005 :  17:44:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send mike alexander a Private Message
Long ago I suggested that one logical extension of this was to indict women who suffer miscarriages with involuntary manslaughter. I was being facetious.

At the time.
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