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trishran
Skeptic Friend
USA
196 Posts |
 Posted - 05/05/2005 : 15:00:45
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Hey Skeptics! The NY Times will be publishing a letter to the editor in the 5/6/05 edition, regarding Maureen Dowd's recent column about beauty.
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trish |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2005 : 15:42:21 [Permalink]
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| Would this be your letter, trishran? If so, congratulations! I've written about a half-dozen or so letters to the paper with no such luck... |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 06:27:56 [Permalink]
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Hey, trishran-- I read your letter (it's not hard to guess which one it is). You make a very good point. Your argument is something I hadn't thought of, but it is hard to disagree with!
(Edited to fix link!) |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 05/06/2005 09:06:08 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 07:54:11 [Permalink]
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Good letter, trish, and I agree with Cuneiformist. An unusual argument.
Many's the writing career that got started with just such a piece sent to a newspaper and published.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 11:01:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Good letter, trish, and I agree with Cuneiformist. An unusual argument.
Many's the writing career that got started with just such a piece sent to a newspaper and published.
Hey! The first and only letter I wrote to the Los Angeles Times was published. Where is my writing career? I feel cheated... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 11:14:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Hey, trishran-- I read your letter (it's not hard to guess which one it is). You make a very good point. Your argument is something I hadn't thought of, but it is hard to disagree with!
(Edited to fix link!)
Trishran, I hope your not suggesting a ticket to ride for those who are size-ist, unattractive-ist, and a whole lot of other ists… |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 11:25:25 [Permalink]
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| It's one thing to understand that looks may affect our earning power (which is one more checkmark on the con side of capitalism), it's another to think that one needs to "develop self-esteem." The idea of self-esteem is something that we need to scrap. Self-worth is only important if you think you don't have it, or think you need to have something or do something to get it. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 11:27:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Good letter, trish, and I agree with Cuneiformist. An unusual argument.
Many's the writing career that got started with just such a piece sent to a newspaper and published.
Hey! The first and only letter I wrote to the Los Angeles Times was published. Where is my writing career? I feel cheated...
You can't stop after just one. The next step is to get an article in there -- the cheap bastards won't pay you for it, though.
Letters to the editor are fun. I've actually had modest flame wars with them.
But then, I don't have much of a writing career going, either. Just the odd essay here & there & now & then. No gumption is the reason, and I have yet to make deadline on an assignment. Editors hate that.
S'ok, I hate editors.... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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trishran
Skeptic Friend
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 12:23:58 [Permalink]
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Yep, you all found the right letter.
Kil, I certainly don't support sizeist, unattractivist positions [both ways: I'm offended that there is a TV show on VH-1 called "Skinny Women are Evil". I can't imagine any network would put on a TV show calling women evil for having a higher weight]
And I certainly don't approve of un-earned self-esteem.
I don't think it's right to consciously give prettier people unfair advantage, but if real advantages in our society and economy are given to people based on snap decisions of the lizard-brain, that those who want to further their careers should not be denegrated for doing so, especially since, at the moment, we as a society don't have a better plan for making appearance less important. Especially since right now, it appears from the scientific evidence, that most people don't even know they are making decisions based on these factors.
We as a society, certainly don't put people down for very career-focused in their education, or who decide to marry later to give their career time to bloom, or wait to have kids until they are professionally established. I think that improving one's looks should fall under that category, a personal effort to improve their career.
And I do think it's sad, and something our society should do something about, that the contributions of the pretty are more welcome than the contributions of the plain.
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trish |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 14:26:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
Hey! The first and only letter I wrote to the Los Angeles Times was published. Where is my writing career? I feel cheated...
Don't feel cheated... You moved on to something grander and more important: Skeptic Friends Network
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 14:28:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
S'ok, I hate editors....
Psst... <whisper mode> Don't let Dave know </whisper mode> |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 09:39:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Good letter, trish, and I agree with Cuneiformist. An unusual argument.
Many's the writing career that got started with just such a piece sent to a newspaper and published.
Hey! The first and only letter I wrote to the Los Angeles Times was published. Where is my writing career? I feel cheated...
You can't stop after just one. The next step is to get an article in there -- the cheap bastards won't pay you for it, though.
Letters to the editor are fun. I've actually had modest flame wars with them.
But then, I don't have much of a writing career going, either. Just the odd essay here & there & now & then. No gumption is the reason, and I have yet to make deadline on an assignment. Editors hate that.
S'ok, I hate editors....
No kidding-- the assholes editors over at the Oklahoman just HATE me. I once wrote to ask why they practically masturbate over the University of Oklahoma football team. I spelled masturbate wrong, though, and the editor wrote back some snide email noting my mistake. So I did some quick reading through of the paper and replied with all the spelling and grammar mistakes I found in that day's paper-- I'm just a crack-pot letter-writer; he edits a newpaper! He never wrote back. The cocksucker. Plus, later that week OU lost to LSU, so I got even more extra glee. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 11:00:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
S'ok, I hate editors....
Psst... <whisper mode> Don't let Dave know </whisper mode>
Heh, he already does...
Editors cop huge attitudes on spelling and grammar, and that's as it should be. It is the writer's resopnsibility to keep his/her manuscript as clean of them as possible. Unfortunatly, this sometimes doesn't seem to apply to staff writers. I've seen a lot of glaring, indeed inexcusable mistakes get published by them.
quote:
No kidding-- the assholes editors over at the Oklahoman just HATE me. I once wrote to ask why they practically masturbate over the University of Oklahoma football team. I spelled masturbate wrong, though, and the editor wrote back some snide email noting my mistake. So I did some quick reading through of the paper and replied with all the spelling and grammar mistakes I found in that day's paper-- I'm just a crack-pot letter-writer; he edits a newpaper! He never wrote back. The cocksucker. Plus, later that week OU lost to LSU, so I got even more extra glee.
Consider yourself victorious that the clown wrote you back at all. Usually, they simply 86 unused letters.
I'd suggest now sending a carefully written critique, with SSAE, detailing all of the miscues and silliness the fishwrap spews forth. Give it a while, and if it's not returned (it defniatly won't be published, if written right), threaten suit. I was pissed at the Manchester Guardian a couple of decades ago, and did exactly that. The resulting correspondence was highly amusing. O'course, my screed never saw the light of day and I didn't get it back, either (they claimed it was lost, and mayhaps it was). But I did cause a little apprehension amongst the editoral staff, which was the point of it all, anyway.
Also, if you do get the piece back, thereby keeping all rights to it, you can try and get it published in a competing rag.
Few endevors are as cut-throat as writing. It's a lot of fun...
Edit: If you do this, send it in hard copy and a floppy, and state the rights that you are willing to assign.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 05/07/2005 11:04:39 |
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