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hippy4christ
Skeptic Friend

193 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2005 :  12:56:31  Show Profile Send hippy4christ a Private Message
Hello Board,

I am inviting everyone to present and discuss examples of the Bible (Masoretic Old Testament, Textus Receptus New Testament) contradicting itself. My current belief is that the Bible which we have is not inerrant, but the errors present in it are not sufficient to make the rest of the Bible unauthoratative.

At this moment the only contradiction that I am aware of is the time in one gospel where Jesus curses a fig tree before going into the temple; whereas in another gospel He curses the fig tree after going into the temple.

Hippy

Faith is believing what you are told, whether it's by a priest or a scientist. A person's scientific beliefs are ones based on personal observation and experimentation.

Lists of Logical Fallacies

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2005 :  13:03:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Apparently you've ignored this site?

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

This link is to contradictions in the King James version but you can go to the home page and peruse any version you choose. There is also a forum on the contradictions there but I've never visited it.

Of course you seem to be referring to the contradictions in the Bible that contradict other Bible passages. There is also the list of contradictions in the Bible to scientific evidence. You can only claim metaphor so often, but at some point metaphor just merges with myth.
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bloody_peasant
Skeptic Friend

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2005 :  13:11:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send bloody_peasant a Yahoo! Message Send bloody_peasant a Private Message
Not to mention the contradictions to modern archaeological data, for example the amazing conquering of Jericho depicted in the Bible appears to be more of a slow absorption and the town of Bethlehem didn't exist at the time of Jesus' birth are just two examples that don't match up with what we know today.

Of course for internal contradictions the entire 4 gospels have numerous contradictions combined with other parts that are obviously copied verbatim. Like someone took someone else's story and copied it word for word except for the parts they wished to change. This fact kinda destroys the whole 4 independent witness apologetic excuse for the contradictions.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2005 :  13:34:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by hippy4christ

Hello Board,

I am inviting everyone to present and discuss examples of the Bible (Masoretic Old Testament, Textus Receptus New Testament) contradicting itself. My current belief is that the Bible which we have is not inerrant, but the errors present in it are not sufficient to make the rest of the Bible unauthoratative.

At this moment the only contradiction that I am aware of is the time in one gospel where Jesus curses a fig tree before going into the temple; whereas in another gospel He curses the fig tree after going into the temple.

Hippy



The two I can think of of the top of my head is who bought the potter's field and how did Judas Iscariot die.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2005 :  13:47:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Hippy, have you never read genesis?


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2005 :  16:51:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
A couple of my favorites:

The lineage of Joseph. Matthew & Luke both list it, and both are completely different.

Only one gospel reports that dead people arose and walked around after the crucifixion. Did the other three guys (and every other writer of the time) not notice?

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2005 :  17:23:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Hey hippie4! Long time, no hear from; welcome back to the boards!

I am not enough of a Bible scholor to comment, but the site posted by B'gal is one I've looked at and found interesting.

How be's things in the Frozen North?


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2005 :  18:09:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message
Just a word of caution: make sure that if you use the Skeptic's Annotated Bible, that you have checked the sources and arguments somewhat. Even some of the people over at Internet Infidels don't care for it too much, and some really obnoxious apologists skewer it.

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9669 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2005 :  18:40:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
I am also bothered by some of the stuff I read in the comments of the Skeptics Annotated Bible.
There are things that are too narrowly considered, and while there are really valid entries in it, a Skeptic needs to read the SAB with skepticism towards the "skeptic comments".

I don't have time to look up any of those "false" comments, but they are there, even an anti-christian such as me has to acknowledge that.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25997 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2005 :  18:53:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Dangit.

I've got a project going where I'm comparing the four gospels of the KJV to one another, verse-by-verse, but it's less than half completed. Part of the color coding I'm doing indicates verses which don't agree with each other. They are legion.

A couple examples:

Matthew 5:1 has Jesus going up on a mountain to address the masses. Luke 6:17 has him on a plain.

Mark 10:46 has Jesus and company leaving Jericho and seeing the blind beggar. Luke 18:35 says they met him while coming up to Jericho. Mathew 20:29-30 has them meeting two blind men while leaving Jericho.

Nothing faith-shaking here, unless your faith is based upon biblio-idolatry.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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sweetmiracle
Skeptic Friend

USA
74 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2005 :  09:53:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sweetmiracle a Private Message
Here is a commonly available list of contradictions, mostly numerical, from http://www.infidelguy.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5490

* (a) David took seven hundred (2 Sam. 8:4), seven thousand (1 Chron. 18:4) horsemen from Hadadezer;
* (b) Ahaziah was 22 (2 Kings 8:26), 42 (2 Chron. 22:2) years old when he began to reign;
* (c) Jehoiachin was 18 (2 Kings 24:8), 8 (2 Chron. 36:9) years old when he began to reign and he reigned 3 months (2 Kings 24:8), 3 months and10 days (2 Chron. 36:9);
[Rest of cut-and-paste from above link deleted due to copyright concerns - Dave W.]

Remarkable claims require remarkable proof.

-Carl Sagan
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Dik-Dik Van Dik
Skeptic Friend

United Kingdom
76 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2005 :  18:20:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dik-Dik Van Dik a Private Message
My opinion is that its completely irrelevent whether the bible contradicts itself or not. Its not a text book, its a collection of stories, accounts and rhetoric. Does having less contradictions give a story book more credence? Christians who profess bible inerrancy will always find a way to interpret something as infallable when it clearly isn't, however their faith has nothing to do with biblical consistency. If it did then why not read the koran, the torah and the guru granth sahib, then choose the religion that has the least contradictions in its holy book? Clearly consistancy of holy texts has nothing to do with a person's chosen religion, the factors are what religion your parents are, where you live and what ethnicity you are.

DARWIN 3:16
"The simple believeth every word." - Proverbs 14:15
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2005 :  18:47:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dik-Dik Van Dik:

My opinion is that its completely irrelevent whether the bible contradicts itself or not. Its not a text book, its a collection of stories, accounts and rhetoric. Does having less contradictions give a story book more credence? Christians who profess bible inerrancy will always find a way to interpret something as infallable when it clearly isn't, however their faith has nothing to do with biblical consistency. If it did then why not read the koran, the torah and the guru granth sahib, then choose the religion that has the least contradictions in its holy book? Clearly consistancy of holy texts has nothing to do with a person's chosen religion, the factors are what religion your parents are, where you live and what ethnicity you are.


Claiming that a book which is wildly self-contradictory is divinely inspired and is trustworthy as a guide to eternal salvation does however show an almost unfathomable level of cognitive dissonance. If you're betting your eternal soul on a book, you should at least expect it to get it's own story straight.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2005 :  19:02:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dik-Dik Van Dik

My opinion is that its completely irrelevent whether the bible contradicts itself or not. Its not a text book, its a collection of stories, accounts and rhetoric. ...

Exactly. It is nothing more than a poorly edited collection of stories and myths coopted from stories and myths that predate their inclusion in the holy lie early in the 4th century. The marketers of christian faith can not have their lie questioned nor the history exposed.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Dik-Dik Van Dik
Skeptic Friend

United Kingdom
76 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2005 :  19:02:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dik-Dik Van Dik a Private Message
"Claiming that a book which is wildly self-contradictory is divinely inspired and is trustworthy as a guide to eternal salvation does however show an almost unfathomable level of cognitive dissonance"

Yes it does, however the problem is that most christians have not even read the bible fully, and for most that do the events go in this order: Faith in bible -> Reading of bible. faith is a pretty hard thing to shrug off despite glaring innacuracies. My point is that faith is not based on the bible in the first place so discussing errors is irrelevent.

DARWIN 3:16
"The simple believeth every word." - Proverbs 14:15
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2005 :  19:30:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dik-Dik Van Dik
My point is that faith is not based on the bible in the first place so discussing errors is irrelevent.
Except when the inerrancy of the bible is needed to maintain that faith, as it is with the person who started this thread. Perhaps your point might have more merit if this thread was actually begun by a skeptic. But you see, Hippy's a literalist.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 05/12/2005 19:40:50
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