Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Religion
 I am a logical Deist
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 8

Franko
New Member

1 Post

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  13:05:13  Show Profile Send Franko a Private Message

I am a Logical Deist. There is a growing number of us on the web.
A logical deist is a Skeptic, a Fatalist, and an Optimist.
If there is evidence that a thing is true we say it is true.
If there is evidence that a thing is false we say it is false.
But if there is no evidence, or there is not enough information to decide one way or the other we say there is not enough information to make a decision.

The Logical Deists believe in the concept of the soul. In fact, it is an integral part of the philosophy. To a Logical Deist, ones soul is the manifestation of ones Graviton (essentially One Soul = One Graviton). In uber-reality (The Omniverse ), we are all simply particles obeying the laws of Gravity (Fate). This universe is an elaboration of that reality created and transmitted by the Top Graviton (i.e. God, or as the LD call Her The Logical Goddess).

Logical Deists are also Fatalist (i.e. hard core Determinist). We do not believe in the concept of free will. Reality is governed by a set of objective Laws (i.e. the Laws of Physics). One of these laws binds us all including God, But the other 3 laws (weak nuclear, strong nuclear, and eletro-magnetism) are the creation and mechanism of control of the Goddess.

The Logical Deists define God as A Superior entity capable of generating a universe. The evidence indicates that God is gender female (a Goddess).










BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  13:14:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Well that sounds all well and proper, to us actual skeptics you might have said the earth is 6000 years old.

What evidence do you have that Universes can be created or that there is more than one? What evidence of "the creation and mechanism of control of the Goddess." this non-sensical statement? What evidence of the souls existance? or that it is linked to gravity or the graviton? Did you know then that gravitons have never been detected and that real scientific hypothsis holds 1 graviton per neutron/proton and not per person?

What if evidence exists of both truth and falsehood? Logic should tell you that any information can be wrong or incomplete and therefor to state absolute truths and falsehoods is not proper.

Edit: I'll file Logical Deists after Christian Science in my list of improperly used terms.
Edit2: Improper use of the term theory

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 05/20/2005 13:19:59
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  13:40:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Welcome to the SFN, Franko!
quote:
Originally posted by Franko

To a Logical Deist, ones soul is the manifestation of ones Graviton (essentially One Soul = One Graviton).
What definition of "graviton" to LDs use? It certainly isn't the definition from physics, in which gravitons are simply particles which transmit the force of gravity, and so a person wouldn't possess a single graviton.
quote:
In uber-reality (The Omniverse ), we are all simply particles obeying the laws of Gravity (Fate).
What evidence exists for this "uber-reality?" What evidence is there which allows an LD to equate gravity with "fate"? Does "fate" follow an inverse-square law, as does gravity?
quote:
This universe is an elaboration of that reality created and transmitted by the Top Graviton (i.e. God, or as the LD call Her The Logical Goddess).
What evidence is there that this Goddess exists?
quote:
One of these laws binds us all including God...
What evidence is there that the Goddess is constrained in any way by gravity?
quote:
...but the other 3 laws (weak nuclear, strong nuclear, and eletro-magnetism) are the creation and mechanism of control of the Goddess.
What evidence is there that those three forces are "laws," and what evidence is there that the Goddess has the ability to control them?
quote:
The Logical Deists define God as A Superior entity capable of generating a universe.
What evidence is there that there is such an entity? Yes, yes, I'm aware of Big Bang theory, and that this universe must have come from something, but what evidence is there that it was sourced from some sort of being?
quote:
The evidence indicates that God is gender female (a Goddess).
And what evidence would that be?

Please note, for all of the above questions, that neither philosophical positions nor conjectures nor mathematical models constitute evidence. Note also that the preceding list is not complete.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page

astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  14:02:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message
I was with you, right up until the crazy "soul & goddess" part.

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  14:21:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Greetings Franko; welcome to SFN!

I am a curious breed of cat, and I noticed in your profile that...:
quote:
I am the prophet of Logical Deism, Sent by the Logical Goddess to battle the Skeptics. I have Returned from the abyss at the will of the Goddess. I have risen once more!

I must ask; how does a Prophet of Logical Deism put forth a prophetcy and what it might be. Further, what and where is this abyss, and what exactly, is the Goddess' problem with innocent skeptics? Yes, and when did you arise before?

As it is written in the Book of Piscivorus: "Reach not for that which bites, for though it might please the eye and the ambition, it's sting might well exceed it's worth."

Well, that was gibberish. The Book of Piscivorus mostly is.....


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 05/20/2005 14:29:00
Go to Top of Page

Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  14:54:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Franko
The evidence indicates that God is gender female (a Goddess).
Hi, Franko, and welcome to SFN. While I had a number of problems with the explanations of your philosophy, this final part struck me as the most odd. What evidence do you have that the universe-creating being is a female (and why does that being have to follow a human paradigm)?
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  16:59:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Good catch, filthy! Of course, it reads like a well-rehearsed script, so I went searching the Web. It just brings up more questions, though.

Is the Logical Goddess usually portrayed as a Baltimore Hooker, as a member of the JREF describes? And is Franko the same person who is described there as "The Sage of Baltimore- Another term for Franko, who mysteriously disapeared but still had the highest post count for some time thereafter"?

Ah, as it turns out, Franko's script has been around since October 2, 2002 (at the latest), except he's cut out some parts of it. Like this one:
Logical deists are diametrically opposed to the A-Theists, and their whack-o-belief system (lack of belief). To put it bluntly the A-Theists are a joke. They claim there is no "God", but then when you ask them who or what "god" is they are unable to define it. How they are able to divine that a thing they cannot define does not exist is a mystery to me, but it seems that when you seriously begin to question an A-Theist you find that they have all sorts of mystical and magical beliefs.
[Unprintable characters modified to best guess, above and in quotes to follow - Dave W.]
Of course, he's probably gotten beaten over the head with the difference between not believing in a god and claiming that no gods exist enough to drop this little gem. It is, after all, just another boring strawman.

Interestingly, this bit from his old screed:
Logical Deists believe that "Consciousness makes Matter" as opposed to the A-Theists-Psuedo-Materialist belief that "Matter makes Consciousness". All of the evidence indicates that the former is true, while there is No Evidence to support the latter belief.
just conflicts with the notion of determinism so much that it was probably best he dropped it, too.
Many Logical Deists (although not all) also believe the evidence indicates that "God" is gender female (i.e. a Goddess).
I guess all LDs have seen the evidence in the last two-and-a-half years, though, so now the gender of god is no longer a matter of belief.
Most important of all though is that Logical Deism promotes 3 ideas above all others:

1) It is better to exist then to not exist.
This doesn't logically follow from the premises of Logical Deism. If one is destined to not exist (via "hard core determinism"), this is not "worse" than if determinism dictated that the person live.
2) Individuality is a preferable state to conformity.
See rebuttal to #1.
3) Optimism - the truth is always beneficial.
Beneficial to what?
This is a brief and incomplete summary done spur of the moment. If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask.
Funny that the incomplete summary has just gotten shorter over time.
Also - please do not misunderstand my intentions. I am not here to recruit for LD or convert anyone to my beliefs. I am simply here to test and exchange ideas with other like-minded, freethinking individuals.
Franko didn't see fit to provide us with such a disclaimer, though. Makes me wonder about his intentions here.

Someone calling him/herself "the Serpent" has posted LD stuff around the Web, too, and sounds much like Franko. So at best, "a growing number of us on the web" equals two (I examined all 23 hits for "logical deism" on Google), and it's been that way for over two years. I suspect this claim has as much veracity as the IDist's claims that there is a "growing number" of scientists who see the "Darwinian paradigm crumbling."

On a slightly different subject, I found Franko saying this:
2 + 2 is always going to equal 4.
which, of course, means we may have an armchair philosopher here, and not a well-read one, either. After all, 2 + 2 only equals 4 when everyone agrees to the definitions for the symbols '2', '+', '=' and '4'. Mathematics are constructs of definitions, not some innate properties of the universe. (And in base 3, 2 + 2 = 11.)

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  17:45:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
After all, 2 + 2 only equals 4 when everyone agrees to the definitions for the symbols '2', '+', '=' and '4'. Mathematics are constructs of definitions, not some innate properties of the universe. (And in base 3, 2 + 2 = 11.)



Good one! Do LDs believe in the power of crystals or sitting in pyramids? Sounds like it to me...

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  18:07:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

Do LDs believe in the power of crystals or sitting in pyramids? Sounds like it to me...
Um, "we say there is not enough information to make a decision" on those questions.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page

Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  18:41:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Franko


I am a Logical Deist...Sent by the Logical Goddess to battle the Skeptics. I have Returned from the abyss at the will of the Goddess. I have risen once more!


I'm a Logical Pedestrian.

(Actually walking is good exercise and promotes good health, if it isn't raining.) I've returned from by office at the will of my girlfriend. I try to get up before noon.

Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.

"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.)
Go to Top of Page

furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  18:51:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
quote:
If there is evidence that a thing is true we say it is true.
If there is evidence that a thing is false we say it is false.
But if there is no evidence, or there is not enough information to decide one way or the other we say there is not enough information to make a decision.

I was with you up to this point and then you followed with:
quote:
The Logical Deists believe in the concept of the soul.

It all tumbled down hill after this. Remember the no evidence part of your 3 precepts?

Welcome to SFN.



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
Go to Top of Page

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2005 :  21:55:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

quote:
Originally posted by pleco

Do LDs believe in the power of crystals or sitting in pyramids? Sounds like it to me...
Um, "we say there is not enough information to make a decision" on those questions.



Well, we all know that "evidence" is a subjective term, just ask any creationist..

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Go to Top of Page

Renae
SFN Regular

543 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2005 :  06:09:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Renae a Private Message
Welcome, Franko.

I'm a Logical Agnostic. If there is evidence a thing is true, I say it might be true. If there is evidence a thing is false, I say it might be true but evidence exists it's false.

I think there might well be a soul, but you lost me at "Graviton", which sounds like a place Frodo or whoever visited in Lord of the Rings. All religions generally lose me at this point, when they start making up words and constructing abstract concepts I can't get my arms around.

I like the idea of a Goddess, though. Can you elaborate more on that?

Go to Top of Page

Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2005 :  06:30:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
(And in base 3, 2 + 2 = 11.)
I have the hardest time doing math in non-base 10 systems, but I found this site that does it for you (though I'd still like to figure it out for myself). But Dave is right, of course-- if you put 4 in the base 10 section and hit "calculate" it comes up 11 in base 3 (and 100 in binary!)...
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 05/21/2005 06:30:51
Go to Top of Page

Maverick
Skeptic Friend

Sweden
385 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2005 :  06:48:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Maverick a Private Message
So, what evidence do you have that supports all this? You claim to believe that which is supported by evidence. Lots of claims and misunderstandings and not much at all that makes sense. But do explain what you mean.

"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2005 :  07:36:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

I have the hardest time doing math in non-base 10 systems, but I found this site that does it for you (though I'd still like to figure it out for myself). But Dave is right, of course-- if you put 4 in the base 10 section and hit "calculate" it comes up 11 in base 3 (and 100 in binary!)...
Now, what's the next number in this sequence: 9,10,11,12,13,14,21,100...?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 8 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 1.25 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000