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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 06/18/2005 : 10:57:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Yes,yes, of course it is part of the universe. The idea is the real objective universe is much more than which intersects with the tiny little probe of current scientific enquiry.
So then you really have no point to make in this regard, since your speculations regarding "supermaterial" aspects of the universe are not, actually, made with regard to anything that is "supermaterial".
Good, now we have that out of the way....
quote:
And here we are surrounded by things like life and consciousness, truly bizarre features in a universe, still unexplained by any known laws of physics, which don't comprise evidence of something more?
Again, if you are saying that there are things we don't know... I'm sure that we are all right there with you in agreement.
Where we part in thinkning then comes down to the difference between being able to say "I don't know" and making wild assumptions to fill in the gaps in our knowledge (with things like "supermaterial" and diety).
Personally, I find that "I don't know" is a far superior answer. As has been stated before, when you let the god-of-the-gaps in, what need do you then have to seek evidenced explanations?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9698 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2005 : 17:39:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
Newtonian physics does a very fine job in successfully describing much of what we observe. But no scientist today would state that it is not lacking in profound ways, something which relativity theory and quantum theory rescue it from at least to some degree.
You are really understating the importance of the teory of relativity and quantum theory by stating "at least to some degree". |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2005 : 20:25:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
And it may be true (I'm not sure actually) that there is currently no promising alternative theory to the Big Bang theory. But there are major problems with the theory, holes if you will. Heck there are problems with Quantum Theory which otherwise has been incredibly succcessful.
Given that a scientific theory is nothing more than an explanation of the observations we make, a "hole" or a "problem" with a theory must be one of two things:- an incorrect explanation, or
- a failure to explain observations which should be explained (by the theory in question).
For example, the fact that Big Bang theory doesn't explain how the original singularity came into being in the first place is not a "hole" in the theory, since the theory doesn't even attempt to describe what came before it, nor should it.
Perhaps you should offer some concrete examples of these "holes" to which you refer, instead of dropping out of the thread. Nobody here can properly address the issues you raise without more data, and your assertion that there exist "profound" problems in these theories requires support. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 02:28:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Perhaps you should offer some concrete examples of these "holes" to which you refer, instead of dropping out of the thread. Nobody here can properly address the issues you raise without more data, and your assertion that there exist "profound" problems in these theories requires support.
Perhaps "gaps" would have been better than "holes?" :)
Maybe another thread could start someday where difficulties with the big bang theory are discussed. For one, how does merely 14 billion years of time create superclusters of galaxies a billion light years across?
Aside to Dr. Mabuse: the phrasing "at least to some degree" does leave room for the possibility that it is a significant degree. (Although to my thinking QM is at least as incomplete as Newtonian physics was.)
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 05:04:36 [Permalink]
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| So you dont even know the basics of the Theory and you claim its "holey", how quaint. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 06:45:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Perhaps you should offer some concrete examples of these "holes" to which you refer, instead of dropping out of the thread. Nobody here can properly address the issues you raise without more data, and your assertion that there exist "profound" problems in these theories requires support.
Perhaps "gaps" would have been better than "holes?" :)
Maybe another thread could start someday where difficulties with the big bang theory are discussed. For one, how does merely 14 billion years of time create superclusters of galaxies a billion light years across?
Aside to Dr. Mabuse: the phrasing "at least to some degree" does leave room for the possibility that it is a significant degree. (Although to my thinking QM is at least as incomplete as Newtonian physics was.)
Basic expansion? The clumpiness of the universe is what formed galaxies in the first place. As the universe is currently 156 Billion LY across, You can see how expansion might cause such things to happen.
I am unaware of any superclusters of galaxies which are billions of LY across, Do you have a source for this contention? I might buy millions, not billions without source cites. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 06:56:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
Perhaps "gaps" would have been better than "holes?" :)
Same difference to me.quote:
Maybe another thread could start someday where difficulties with the big bang theory are discussed.
We could, but this thread is so thoroughly hijacked it doesn't much matter.quote:
For one, how does merely 14 billion years of time create superclusters of galaxies a billion light years across?
Well, you do realize that a "supercluster" is just a label slapped on a group of galaxies, and not an inherent property of that group of galaxies. "Supercluster" describes how things look to us humans, it's not due to anything the galaxies themselves reveal to us. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2005 : 09:45:05 [Permalink]
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Considering that most galaxies are 100k+LY across, a cluster of a thousand million LY across would be rare indeed, but not impossible. More likely that they are the remnants of multiple clusters which have been thrown together by gravity.
FYI ALL: Billion and trillion are not universal names they mean different things in different places. One thousand million is the American billion. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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