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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 06/01/2005 : 22:00:04 [Permalink]
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I totally agree with H.H. Pull their reservation and refund them their $16k. Issue a press release explaining that ID is not science.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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latsot
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
70 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 01:49:29 [Permalink]
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Randi has offered the Smithsonian $20k if they don't run the film.
The JREF is urging people to write to them expressing their displeasure and they will forward the messages to the Smithsonian.
Im gathering my vitriol as I type...
r |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 05:27:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latsot
Randi has offered the Smithsonian $20k if they don't run the film.
The JREF is urging people to write to them expressing their displeasure and they will forward the messages to the Smithsonian.
Im gathering my vitriol as I type...
r
Welcome to SFN, latsot!
There is yet another way out, one that I think I like. Run the film as planned, then critique it with a sharp axe and publish in the popular press along with a review of The Wedge document, and a history of ID. In short, make a fight of it.
In this way, some profit other than 16,000 pieces of silver might be realized from this idiotcy.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 09:14:25 [Permalink]
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Okay, forget the defense of the Smithsonian I was trying to make. They've now gone over the deep end. According to the Washington Post, the museum is returning the $16,000, and revoking their "cosponsorship" of the film, but they're going to let the DI show the film in the Baird Auditorium, anyway. Yeah, they've gone from accepting money to allow the DI a PR coup, to handing the DI a PR coup for free.
Obviously, the Smithsonian has enough money to get by with what they get from my taxes. I doubt I'll be giving them anything extra from my hard-earned (post-witholding) dough, ever again. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 11:08:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Okay, forget the defense of the Smithsonian I was trying to make. They've now gone over the deep end. According to the Washington Post, the museum is returning the $16,000, and revoking their "cosponsorship" of the film, but they're going to let the DI show the film in the Baird Auditorium, anyway. Yeah, they've gone from accepting money to allow the DI a PR coup, to handing the DI a PR coup for free.
Obviously, the Smithsonian has enough money to get by with what they get from my taxes. I doubt I'll be giving them anything extra from my hard-earned (post-witholding) dough, ever again.
Well, shit!
quote:
When Randi heard the story, he says he called the Smithsonian offering the institution $20,000 not to show the film.
"They are renting the place for this creationist film, but apparently [the Smithsonian] didn't know it was creationist film," Randi said from his Fort Lauderdale headquarters. If it was a "matter of money, which I doubt," he said, "then I'm ready to surpass that."
In its statement yesterday, the Smithsonian said it will honor the agreement to screen the film June 23, but that it does not endorse the film and will not accept the agreed-upon fee offered for the auditorium.
"We're disappointed," Chapman said. "We met all their conditions -- screening the film for them, agreeing [to list the Smithsonian] director's name on the invitation and so forth -- and then some mention of this in the media, and now they want to backtrack to some degree, and we don't get it."
When asked if the Smithsonian had made a mistake in initially agreeing to host the event, spokesman Randall Kremer says: "We don't look at it in terms of whether we made a mistake or not. Our statement speaks for itself."
Guess I'm going to have to write another letter -- where the hell did I put that thesaurus?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 06/02/2005 11:10:11 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 12:49:38 [Permalink]
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It is now my understanding that this Privileged Planet tripe will be offered to PBS.
But, you say, casting forth the red herring, how can you call it 'tripe' if you've never seen it?
Easy. I'm an observent Darwinbot and all I've seen from DI is tripe, if not worse (I'm being generous, here). It seems doubtful that this offering will break the mould. I've already lost some faith in PBS; let's see if they can kill what little is left.
Saw it at the Rabble.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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latsot
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
70 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 13:40:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Welcome to SFN, latsot!
Thanks!
quote:
There is yet another way out, one that I think I like. Run the film as planned, then critique it with a sharp axe and publish in the popular press along with a review of The Wedge document, and a history of ID. In short, make a fight of it.
Yeah...I hear what you are saying, but this wont stop creationists claiming the apparent Smithsonian endorsement of their ideas as a major triamph for *decades*.
Thats what boils my piss about the whole thing - not so much what the Smithsonian has done - more how the affair will be gleefully trotted out by generations of creationists, probably for longer than any of us are alive.
Cheers
r |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 13:48:42 [Permalink]
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Missed that. I was still house-sitting and the resident computer and I didn't get along very well; probably because it works like a computer should, unlike my cobbled-up box, and I couldn't get the hang of it.
I wonder; will PBS actually show it? And if so, will they also show the other side of this, for lack of a better word, controversy? If they do show the whole thing, I'm all for it. But only if they air it all.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 14:01:17 [Permalink]
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From the Washington Post article Dave linked:
quote:
When asked if the Smithsonian had made a mistake in initially agreeing to host the event, spokesman Randall Kremer says: "We don't look at it in terms of whether we made a mistake or not. Our statement speaks for itself."
Why is it so god damn hard for them to just say "Absolutely we made a mistake. This is something that should never have gotten through our screening process. But we're intent on correcting that and have decided to revoke the offer to host the film as of now."
That's how you restore credibility, by doing what should have been done to begin with. It's as if the Smithsonian thinks they can still distance themselves from this debacle. Uh-uh. It's on, whether they wanted this fight or not. They had better step up to the friggin plate already. This isn't just going to go away on its own.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 06/02/2005 14:06:52 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 14:03:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latsot
quote:
Welcome to SFN, latsot!
Thanks!
quote:
There is yet another way out, one that I think I like. Run the film as planned, then critique it with a sharp axe and publish in the popular press along with a review of The Wedge document, and a history of ID. In short, make a fight of it.
Yeah...I hear what you are saying, but this wont stop creationists claiming the apparent Smithsonian endorsement of their ideas as a major triamph for *decades*.
Thats what boils my piss about the whole thing - not so much what the Smithsonian has done - more how the affair will be gleefully trotted out by generations of creationists, probably for longer than any of us are alive.
Cheers
r
Indeed, but they'll do that anyway, however it 'stills off. Odd is it not, that the IDists and the creationists are so skilled at twisting the truth to suit their ends even though their religious books condemn it?
What would be nice to have is access to the transcripts of such a critique. Those could settle an argument quickly and be used in the various, asinine court cases such as the one forthcoming in Dover, PA.
And therein lies another rub, the Big One. If the Smithsonian shows it even without co-sponsership, they will claim endorsment in these legal cases. And they will be listened to, and any disclaimer the Smithsonian might make would probably be ignored in the shouting.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 15:57:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
And therein lies another rub, the Big One. If the Smithsonian shows it even without co-sponsership, they will claim endorsment in these legal cases. And they will be listened to, and any disclaimer the Smithsonian might make would probably be ignored in the shouting.
If they make a big deal of this under oath, they're going to be in a legal world of hurt. The museum would be well within their rights to sue over it, and the thousands of words already devoted to this issue on the Web and off would already show such perjury for what it would be.
Which is probably one of the reasons the DI is annoyed with the Smithsonian, too:So what's the matter with the Smithsonian? Of course, they go on to toot about "intellectual liberty and robust scientific inquiry," while hypocritically they don't allow comments on their blog (and Dembski is notorious for deleting critical comments off his personal blog, too). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 17:18:46 [Permalink]
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They do seem a bit disappointed, not to say, miffed, don't they. I think that the co-sponsership, that the Smithsonian withdrew, was a lot more important than the 16K it would have cost them.
The thing is that they don't have to come out and say it; they will be making the insinuation when they say that the museum aired the film. Not so good as a co-sponsership perhaps, but it'll have an effect never the less.
I'm sure that a critique will sooner or later hit the web.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2005 : 23:16:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
The thing is that they don't have to come out and say it; they will be making the insinuation when they say that the museum aired the film. Not so good as a co-sponsership perhaps, but it'll have an effect never the less.
And that, filthy, is exactly what I fear. This goes beyond whatever the Discovery Institute spin doctors can whip up. This is the kind of insinuation that filters into the mainstream media, and then into the general populace. The film will air on PBS as "The movie that premiered at the Smithsonian." It's not untrue, and it will be printed, and maybe the people who don't know any better won't even consciously process it, but they will make the connection in their minds between ID and legitimate science.
At least if it's "The controversial film the Smithsonian refused to show," they will have to ask themselves "Oh, really? Why was it refused?" To me, that's much better, because they'll be looking for real answers, not just unthinkingly accepting the inuendo. Of course those who believe in vast scientific atheist conspiracies will anyway, but I doubt the public at large is ready to swallow that one.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 06/02/2005 23:27:25 |
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