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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2005 :  17:14:48  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Well, just watched Penn and Teller's Bullshit! episode on colleges and they hit a new low. http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do?topic=college

"College degrees will lead us to future happiness, enlightenment, fun, preparation for life, a fulfilling job, as well as national prosperity. At least, that's what we've been told and sold. That's brochure bullshit!"

What's it about? Seems to be about making fun of college co-eds, beer parties and guys with berets. Who was one of the so-called experts? Our pal, David Horowitz. Did they get their heads out of their asses long enough to read anything this guy wrote? Who would let this guy change their oil, much less be on their TV show as an expert?

Sometimes they're funny, sometimes they seem to get it right, but when they suck, they suck big time.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2005 :  21:15:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
Well, just watched Penn and Teller's Bullshit! episode on colleges and they hit a new low. http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do?topic=college

"College degrees will lead us to future happiness, enlightenment, fun, preparation for life, a fulfilling job, as well as national prosperity. At least, that's what we've been told and sold. That's brochure bullshit!"



Watch the entire episode, it doesn't suck all that bad.

They don't blast college as bad as the intro line suggests, just some aspects of the whole university scene.

Their complaint about "diversity" and the way the word is used and policies implemented with "diversity" as the goal are, imo, on the money.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2005 :  00:20:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
They may have a point, but it's done pretty badly. They seem to advertise that a college degree is worthless, then they laugh at some silly girl and some silly guy in a beret. Well, guess what? Some co-eds can appear silly. Some guys in berets can appear silly. So what?

Then they pull out this charlatan Horowitz as though he's some kind of competent expert. They pull Chomsky out and he's allowed to have about 10 seconds and they laugh at him. I have no idea what Chosmky was even talking about. It might have been stupid, I don't know. Who can know? Even if it was, what was the point of pulling him out at all? Why didn't they just put pictures of him up and laugh at him? Penn and Teller said nothing of value whatsoever. I kept waiting for the punch line.

Maybe I need to watch it again or, maybe it's just an entertainment show without much substance to begin with and they don't really care whether or not they impart reasonable information.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2005 :  06:00:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Well, it seems as if you were pissed off by their intro line and one guest.

Watch it again, as the co-ed you think they are making fun of gets lavishly praised by them for a particular bit if insight she comes up with. The guy in the beret IS a fucking idiot of major proportions. The frat guys were comic relief. And Chmosky.... does anyone have any idea what that guy is talking about most of the time?

They aren't always right, you know. You sound as if you're just pissed because they are takin a dump on formal education. The institution of formal education is NOT above criticism either.

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2005 :  06:14:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Well, it's an idiotic format to begin with. I mean, their schtick is calling people assholes and saying the word "fuck" a lot. That's cute, I like them, they're funny, and some of their shows seem to be of merit, but even when they're right, all they end up doing is showing a shippet of something which appears really stupid after saying, "AND THEN THIS ASSHOLE!....." I know it's not meant to be a serious documentary, but some of it wears thin, even when they're completely right.

The problem with this particular show is that this is all that there is and then they bring in the biggest BULLSHIT! artist in the world - Horowitz. Have you looked at frontpagemag.com and tried to find something intelligent?

What was the point of this particular show, anyway? That they found a school where a couple of people went overboard on something? That's nice. Why didn't they just say, "we're going to a school where some people did something stupid?" I thought they'd get into why everyone has an obsession with degrees, or even talk about the obsession with PhD's. Nothing. Or compare how long it takes to pay off student loans compared to the pay involved. Nothing.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2005 :  06:22:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
quote:
The institution of formal education is NOT above criticism either.


I have no problem with that. I have no degrees. I'm not protecting them.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2005 :  06:57:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
I've gotta agree with Gorgo. Worst episode ever, in my opinion.

Chomsky seems to have been brought in just to make fun of him. It seemed like they had to tell him each point he was supposed to make, and then they ridiculed his cluelessness about what his position allegedly was. They could have done an entire half-hour show just on Chomsky's pontifications outside his field of expertise, but instead we got this crap.

They also probably could have done an entire half-hour show on misguided or over-reaching "diversity" initiatives, but instead, we got something less than coherent regarding a couple of colleges with kids who are less than wholly educated about things they're asked to speak on.

And that, in general, is one of the major problems with this episode. Unlike, say, the clueless environmentalists in season one, these college students aren't holding themselves out as experts on cultural diversity or anything else they're being asked by Penn & Teller. Are these kids studying diversity?

And the "liberal bias" point seemed lost amid the clutter, not that I even agree with it, since many older, tenured professors are conservatives, anyway. And the bias would appear to vary from school to school, too, so generalizing from a sample size of one or two is simply poor scholarship.

Even the "these kids aren't getting educated" point was lost. The show tried to focus on too many different problems, and wound up seeming like gibberish most of the time. As an editor, I would have told P&T, "you seem to have four different shows here, you should clean this pile of junk up so it makes more sense."

I didn't even find myself laughing much. The humor in this show seemed so gratuitous.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2005 :  07:30:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
I would agree that Horowitz isn;t a good choice for an "expert".

I'd also agree that this show was not their best work....


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2005 :  09:19:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message
I really enjoyed the episode on recycling...I found that one very informative. The "higher education" episode was pretty bad, but the worst? I give that distinction to the "hair care industry" episode.....just lame. They could have come up with a much better show focusing on hair products.

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2005 :  09:27:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Not having seen the "hair care industry" episode, I could not use such data when forming my opinion.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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skepticality
Skeptic Friend

USA
105 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2005 :  11:28:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit skepticality's Homepage Send skepticality a Private Message
It is actually why, when we came up with our show concept, we dedicated ourselves to not becoming a 'humor' show as our cornerstone.

We like the IDEA of what Penn and Teller are doing, but when your show has to ALWAYS be 'funny', you sometimes lose the point. Some things just aren't that funny. It is one thing when the funny stuff, 'happens' to be funny, but when it isn't funny... let it not be funny and prove the point.

I guess P&T are the equivalent of our 'Gonzo' journalists. They do live in Vegas, where I am from, so the Hunter Thompson lives in all of us Vegas-ites.

Derek Colanduno
host - skepticality
http://www.skepticality.com/
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2005 :  02:04:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

Not having seen the "hair care industry" episode, I could not use such data when forming my opinion.



The show has both Arlo Guthrie and a young lady getting a Brazilian. What more does a show need? How can you get better than that?

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2005 :  03:09:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave W.

Not having seen the "hair care industry" episode, I could not use such data when forming my opinion.


The show has both Arlo Guthrie and a young lady getting a Brazilian. What more does a show need? How can you get better than that?

Having only broadcast TV and not bothering with much of that (I try to keep life sane and simple), I've yet to see Penn & Teller.

I am familiar with Arlo Guthrie and his music, but aside from our good friend Siberia, I don't know what a 'Brazilian' is.

And Horowiitz is an ass at best.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2005 :  03:51:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_wax

Brazilian waxing is a type of waxing involving the bikini area. This procedure involves the complete removal of hair adjacent to the anus, perineum and vulva (labia majora and mons pubis). It can be thought of as an extreme form of bikini waxing. Some forms of Brazilian waxing leave a small line of pubic hair above the vulva; most do not.


I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2005 :  03:59:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_wax

Brazilian waxing is a type of waxing involving the bikini area. This procedure involves the complete removal of hair adjacent to the anus, perineum and vulva (labia majora and mons pubis). It can be thought of as an extreme form of bikini waxing. Some forms of Brazilian waxing leave a small line of pubic hair above the vulva; most do not.



I see. Rather similar to a depiliated Horowitz, then....

Ah fashion, thy sting is cruel and thy goals preposterous.....

Thanks gorgo.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2005 :  04:12:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
quote:
I see. Rather similar to a depiliated Horowitz, then....



quote:

Ah fashion, thy sting is cruel and thy goals preposterous.....



Yes, and fun to watch.

quote:

Thanks gorgo.




Always at your service.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 06/28/2005 04:14:28
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