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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 07/06/2005 : 19:13:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Boron10
He's not suggesting that it shouldn't be protected speech; he's just saying it's a terrible thing to say.
Uh, no. What he actually said was "This should not be part of free speech and it is surely Anti-American and is treasonous." He is suggesting that this sort of speech should not be protected, since he believes that morally it is no different than an act of treason.
edit: Damn, Dave beat me to it.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/06/2005 19:13:44 |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2005 : 20:29:51 [Permalink]
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| Hm. I stand (well, I actually sit) corrected. I was only looking at the most recent posts. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2005 : 00:22:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
(such as supporting killing our troops or burning a flag)
The whole flag burning thing cracks me up.... it does, really.
I laugh everytime I hear some righ-wing-nut protest against it.
There is a US government manual, an old manula at that. In this maunual are listed the proper ways in which the flag should be displayed, cared for, and treated.
When a flag starts to become tattered or worn, this manual provides for the care of old flags as well... by burning them.
In some instances, depending on the particular use a flag is put to, the manula reccomends burning the flag if it ever touches the ground.
It hurts my head to think of all the rabid and drooling ultra-patriots out there who come unglued at the thought of burning a US flag.
As I may have said before... some of us have shed blood for that fucking thing. What that translates to is that we shed blood so anyone who wants to is FREE to use that thing to wipe their ass with, if they want to. Anything else is a travesty.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2005 : 03:30:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
(such as supporting killing our troops or burning a flag)
The whole flag burning thing cracks me up.... it does, really.
I laugh everytime I hear some righ-wing-nut protest against it.
There is a US government manual, an old manula at that. In this maunual are listed the proper ways in which the flag should be displayed, cared for, and treated.
When a flag starts to become tattered or worn, this manual provides for the care of old flags as well... by burning them.
In some instances, depending on the particular use a flag is put to, the manula reccomends burning the flag if it ever touches the ground.
It hurts my head to think of all the rabid and drooling ultra-patriots out there who come unglued at the thought of burning a US flag.
As I may have said before... some of us have shed blood for that fucking thing. What that translates to is that we shed blood so anyone who wants to is FREE to use that thing to wipe their ass with, if they want to. Anything else is a travesty.
Yes....
While I find flag desecration distastlul (and futile), it bothers me not in the least when some protestor trashes or torches one. I find the frantic and bellegerent waving of it by our super-patriots equally disgusting (and futile), especally by those who have never seen the elephant. But I would not raise one finger beyond the middle one to hinder either.
For some reason, I am reminded of the to-do that went up over a certain brain-damaged artist who put a crucifix in a jar of urine and exibited it titled as "Piss Christ." I thought that it was certainly in poor taste and was dubious art at best, but in the long run, who did it harm? As I recall, that one was a some sort of protest as well, and ended up as low comedy when all sorts of people got off on being offended. Sometimes, I think, we like being offended and will go to any length for the sensation....
Anyhow, It was good for a laugh.
So, let's say that the flag-desecration admendment currently wending it's foul way through Congress actually goes into the Constitution of these United States. What then? Will this in any way make out country more secure? Will this instill patriotism in the breasts of any other than the aforementioned, pavlovian super-patriots? Will it actually stop anyone from burning a flag on the Capitol steps?
Or will it be simply another way to repress those whom we don't agree with?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2005 : 12:25:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
So, let's say that the flag-desecration admendment currently wending it's foul way through Congress actually goes into the Constitution of these United States. What then?
It will create a constitutional contradiction.
It will also work in the favor of the right-wing, as they thrive on issues that divide the country and distract the public awareness away from what they are actually doing with policy and legislation.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2005 : 13:50:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
There is a US government manual, an old manula at that. In this maunual are listed the proper ways in which the flag should be displayed, cared for, and treated.
When a flag starts to become tattered or worn, this manual provides for the care of old flags as well... by burning them.
In some instances, depending on the particular use a flag is put to, the manula reccomends burning the flag if it ever touches the ground.
Is there a chance this manual is online?
Since you are more acquainted with it, can you find a link to it?
I'd love to have it...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2005 : 13:58:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Is there a chance this manual is online?
U.S. FLAG: CARE AND DISPLAY
quote:
Section 176
Respect for flag
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkin or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/30/2005 14:02:19 |
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