Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 General Skepticism
 Apparitions and Haunted Houses
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 5

Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  09:14:31  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
I wondered what forum to put this in...I refuse to put in Pseudoscience..Especially with the whole bad science exposed...Ghosts I do not feel are bad science..

Crisis Apparitions...are apparitions of a person in crisis..usually death that is seen by others...more often by those close to the person in crisis...crisis apparitions attemt to convey a message ..a last projection of the Will?
In reports, sighting of the Apparition coincides with the time of Death{See proceedings from journals of the Society of psychical Research}
I wonder if as we have "coincidences" as you all call it with close family members in life can it also happen upon death...telepathic thoughts..mothers knowing when their kids are in a crisis.. Fathers knowing when their sons have died in war....Can the projection of the will of the dying or deceased be visualized by the living...
It is interesting though I might add how a crisis apparition is only seen once yet other apparitions are seen more than once like on a certain day or performing the same action over and over again?

FWH Myers writes

"I think the curious question as to the influence of certain "houses" in generating apparitions may be concluded under the broader heading of Retrocognition.Certain manifestations which occur in haunted houses depend, let us say, on something which has taken place a long time ago. In what way do they depend on that past event? Are they a sequal, or only a residue? Is there fresh perception or something already accomplished? Or can we draw any real distinction between a continued action or a continued perception of a past action?

Mod: Moved to Pseudoscience. This really isn't a social issue -- Valiant Dancer

Mod: Under further review, this thread moved to General Skepticism -- Valiant Dancer

Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 07/29/2005 11:26:51

Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  09:47:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
I really don't agree Valiant Dancer.. My thoughts on Crisis Apparition have to do with Social issues concerning Family and their relationships.. apparitions seen in Historical homes..ghosts are not Bad Science that needs to be exposed... So if you feel you need to move it at least move it to general skepticism or religion or perhaps psychology.. do we have a psychology forum?

Other than that you have any other thoughts on what I wrote? Sheesh!!!
Go to Top of Page

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  09:59:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Storm:
I wonder if as we have "coincidences" as you all call it with close family members in life can it also happen upon death...telepathic thoughts..mothers knowing when their kids are in a crisis.. Fathers knowing when their sons have died in war....Can the projection of the will of the dying or deceased be visualized by the living...

How often do you suppose we hear about those who had a strong feeling that a child was in trouble only to find out that it wasn't so? Once again, I would say that for every seemingly spooky hit, there are probably thousands of misses that nobody pays any attention to. I have worried many times about family members being in trouble. I have worried about my kids, just because they were a little late or for no particular reason that I understand. Perhaps there is some worry trigger that I am un-aware of. Anyhow, I am happy to report that I have had no premonition worthy of reporting to anyone, if you get my drift.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
Go to Top of Page

BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  10:00:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
You do understand that we are still waiting (a long time now) for actual evidence of any ghosts, let alone a particular sub-grouping thereof.

Perhaps a differnt forum would be happy to discuss the unevidenced nuaunces of the spectre.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Go to Top of Page

Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  10:12:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

I wondered what forum to put this in...I refuse to put in Pseudoscience..Especially with the whole bad science exposed...Ghosts I do not feel are bad science..

Crisis Apparitions...are apparitions of a person in crisis..usually death that is seen by others...more often by those close to the person in crisis...crisis apparitions attemt to convey a message ..a last projection of the Will?
In reports, sighting of the Apparition coincides with the time of Death{See proceedings from journals of the Society of psychical Research}
I wonder if as we have "coincidences" as you all call it with close family members in life can it also happen upon death...telepathic thoughts..mothers knowing when their kids are in a crisis.. Fathers knowing when their sons have died in war....Can the projection of the will of the dying or deceased be visualized by the living...
It is interesting though I might add how a crisis apparition is only seen once yet other apparitions are seen more than once like on a certain day or performing the same action over and over again?

FWH Myers writes

"I think the curious question as to the influence of certain "houses" in generating apparitions may be concluded under the broader heading of Retrocognition.Certain manifestations which occur in haunted houses depend, let us say, on something which has taken place a long time ago. In what way do they depend on that past event? Are they a sequal, or only a residue? Is there fresh perception or something already accomplished? Or can we draw any real distinction between a continued action or a continued perception of a past action?

Mod: Moved to Pseudoscience. This really isn't a social issue -- Valiant Dancer



As crisis hauntings go, I have one anecdotal story related to me by a friend who claimed that she was awakened by the sound of a car accident. She instinctively knew that a friend of hers had just been killed in an accident and there was no accident near her that she could recall. The phone rang a short while later (enough time for her to get dressed) and informed her of the death of the same friend she thought was involved in the accident.

I've also had feelings of someone being in trouble or injured. They turned out to not be so. I am skeptical of the existance of such phenomenon based on the anectdotal nature of the data provided.

I acknowledge that you do not agree with the placement of this post, but it is the only one that seems appropriate. I'll float an idea for a parapsychology sub board, but I don't think there is adequate post volume to warrant it. Psychology really doesn't fit this post, either.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Go to Top of Page

H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  10:50:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I'll float an idea for a parapsychology sub board, but I don't think there is adequate post volume to warrant it. Psychology really doesn't fit this post, either.
I've long felt there should be a paranormal folder that could hold such topics as ghosts, ESP, bigfoot, UFOs, etc. A catch-all for things which aren't religious or provable psuedoscience.

And you could have placed this thread in General Skepticism.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/29/2005 11:19:45
Go to Top of Page

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  13:10:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
H. Humbert:
I've long felt there should be a paranormal folder that could hold such topics as ghosts, ESP, bigfoot, UFOs, etc. A catch-all for things which aren't religious or provable psuedoscience.

And that would leave for the General Skepticism folder what? Anyhow, Bigfoot and UFO stuff are not paranormal claims....

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
Go to Top of Page

Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  13:25:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kil

quote:
H. Humbert:
I've long felt there should be a paranormal folder that could hold such topics as ghosts, ESP, bigfoot, UFOs, etc. A catch-all for things which aren't religious or provable psuedoscience.

And that would leave for the General Skepticism folder what? Anyhow, Bigfoot and UFO stuff are not paranormal claims....

I agree. The aliens from another planet I just met would rather see UFO-posts in it's appropriet folder: Astronomy.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Go to Top of Page

Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  14:39:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
FWH Myers writes

"So let us describe a "ghost" as a manifestation of persistent personal energy or as an indication that some kind of force is being exercised after death which is some way connected with a person previously known on earth. It is theoretically possible that this force or influence , which after mans death creates a phantasmal impression of him, may indicate no continuing action on his part, but may be some residue of the force or energy which he generated while alive.
Go to Top of Page

Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  14:57:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Check this site out

http://www.spr.ac.uk/confprogramme.php3?year=2001

Go to Top of Page

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  15:04:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm
"It is theoretically possible that this force or influence , which after mans death creates a phantasmal impression of him, may indicate no continuing action on his part, but may be some residue of the force or energy which he generated while alive."



How is it theoretically possible? What theory is being used here?

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Go to Top of Page

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  15:18:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

quote:
Originally posted by Storm
"It is theoretically possible that this force or influence , which after mans death creates a phantasmal impression of him, may indicate no continuing action on his part, but may be some residue of the force or energy which he generated while alive."



How is it theoretically possible? What theory is being used here?



I forget the name, but the theory goes something like this:

Say something vauge and mystical, and hope that everyone nods their head and claim to understand you.

Now in case that theory doesn't work, a second theory states that you call those who question you close minded.

But on a more serious note...
quote:
So let us describe a "ghost" as a manifestation of persistent personal energy


And a zibwob is a manifestation of yukozat. But if you don't know what a yukozat is, it doesn't help when describing zibwob.

In short: What is "Persistent personal energy"? How has it been observed? How does it work?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Go to Top of Page

Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  15:37:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Originally posted by Pleco

quote:
What theory is being used here?




Myers writes

quote:
there is strong evidence for the recurrence of the same hallucinatory figures in the same localitites but weak evidence to indicate any purpose in most of these figures, or any connection with bygone individuals, or with such tragedies as are popularly supposed to start a ghost on its career.


I know what you all will say...WHAT EVIDENCE!!!!!!! Read the book!!!!! The Chapter on Phantasms of the Dead !!!!
Anyway this is where the theory of Personal energy stems from...

Check this paper out

http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Conferences/tucson96.html
Go to Top of Page

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  15:55:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
Since I don't have this book, is it possible to quote the proposed evidence here?

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Go to Top of Page

Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  16:07:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Buy it Pleco... but it is all ancedoctal...so you might not accept it...that is up to you...it is based on a Census conducted by Frederick Myers, Frank Podomore, Edmund Gurney... Members of the founding members of the Socity for Psychical Research..
Go to Top of Page

Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  16:28:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Originally posted by Ricky

quote:
In short: What is "Persistent personal energy"? How has it been observed? How does it work?


Persistent Personal Energy... hmm... phantasml manifestations of those previously known on earth...observed through the never ending testomonies of the public...How does it work? not sure? I think emotion plays an enormous role especially in Crisis Apparition cases



Go to Top of Page
Page: of 5 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.17 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000