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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  18:01:03  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
I have an ethical question.

I am in a discussion with someone online, and this person quotes from a book to defend themselves.

I do not own the book, so I ask for additional text from the book. The person states that I should just buy the book.

However, I do not want to give my money to the publishers and authors of said book if I do not agree with their cause. I would rather the person who does agree with the cause and already owns the book to give me the data.

Am I in the wrong by not wanting to purchase said book? Is that being too closed minded?

Just curious...

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.

Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  18:14:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
That person would be me..i say to buy the book..why not take the time..Do it if your interested.. Ethical ..whatever.. you can read a book even if you don't agree with the cause... i do not quote from the book to defend myself..although I agree with many of what myers states..Read more Pleco...I quoted alot more from the book. Its worth the read

quote:
I would rather the person who does agree with the cause and already owns the book to give me the data.



Boy have I heard that before on this forum...Sheesh!!!! Doesn't anyone like to do research...find out for themselves...

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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  18:35:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Boy have I heard that before on this forum...Sheesh!!!! Doesn't anyone like to do research...find out for themselves...
Lol, you mean like that time we suggested you research what energy was and you came back with an article claiming the sun was made of love?


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/29/2005 18:36:32
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  18:38:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert

quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Boy have I heard that before on this forum...Sheesh!!!! Doesn't anyone like to do research...find out for themselves...
Lol, you mean like that time we suggested you research what energy was and you came back with an article claiming the sun was made of love?


That was truly hilarious...

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  18:40:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Really, Storm, suggesting that someone else read what you've read, instead of giving them a summary in your own words, says "I don't understand this enough to explain it to you, but I agree with it." If you've done the research, fine: share what you've learned. It might interest others enough to read the book.

Suggesting that people here don't read or don't like to do research, just because they don't want to pay for a book you think is interesting, is just plain stupid.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  18:44:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
It's a tough call, pleco. I used to think like you-- I refused to buy any books by that arrogant SOB Lee Strobel and his "The Case for . . ." series of books aruging for the validity of Jesus, God, religion, and whatever else. I refused, even though I wanted to see his arguments ('know thy enemy' and that sort of thing). However, since I didn't want to line the guy's pocket with my money, I refused to buy.

Upon thinking about it, it struck me that buying a book isn't a statement of tacit approval, rather it's payment for being entertained. And since I'm entertained reading his work. I don't feel bad buying it.

That said, depending on where you live and what you have access to, certain books-- particularly books on, say, ghosts, or other non-mainstream topics-- might not be available. In addition, the person making claims does have some obligation to at least clarify and define difficult terms so there can be reasonable discussion. So it's a tough call on what to do in this case...
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Storm
SFN Regular

USA
708 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  18:50:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Storm's Homepage Send Storm a Private Message
Originally posted by H.

quote:
Lol, you mean like that time we suggested you research what energy was and you came back with an article claiming the sun was made of love?





Huh? when did I say the sun was made of love? You have me confused with someone else.

I have given numerous summeries in my own words...but that was not enough...now I quote,,that's not good enough..sheesh
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  18:52:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
Thanks all for most of the responses. My question was honest and was not meant to single out someone. As stated, I definitely do not want to give my money to people that would use my money for purposes I don't agree with, but I do want to have the information to be able to analyze it. With the advent of the internet, this is a lot easier, but some stuff still requires purchasing of books.

I honestly wanted to know how obligated a person was to disclose information they had that they used to bolster their arguments that the "other side" doesn't have.

BTW, this applies to EVERYONE, myself included. As I said I was not pointing out Storm in particular. Storm's post just got me thinking, silly me.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  18:55:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

Originally posted by H.

quote:
Lol, you mean like that time we suggested you research what energy was and you came back with an article claiming the sun was made of love?





Huh? when did I say the sun was made of love? You have me confused with someone else.

I have given numerous summeries in my own words...but that was not enough...now I quote,,that's not good enough..sheesh


You linked it, not said it.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  18:59:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Storm

I have given numerous summeries in my own words...but that was not enough...now I quote,,that's not good enough..sheesh
What do you mean, "not good enough?" Not good enough for what?

quote:
Originally posted by pleco

As stated, I definitely do not want to give my money to people that would use my money for purposes I don't agree with, but I do want to have the information to be able to analyze it. With the advent of the internet, this is a lot easier, but some stuff still requires purchasing of books.
A good library is another alternative, especially if you consider that the library has already handed over the money to the author (or received a freebie), and checking out the book - even many times - won't inflate the author's wallet any further. Unless, of course, you lose the book, but think of that as just more incentive to keep tabs on it.

And no, it is not unethical or "wrong" in any way to demand that the person making a claim back it up properly. "Read the book yourself" is not support for an argument, it's an attempt to make you prove the other person's point. It is a shift of the burden of proof, and should be treated as such.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  19:01:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
Thanks Dave W. for that suggestion...with the emphasis on good library. I don't consider my public library to be "good" but I could try that out.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  19:12:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
If there's a university nearby, you can also ask for library privileges there, I think.

Heh, I could probably be inside the Library of Congress within 45 minutes of leaving home, and I've never been. My county's public library system is pretty big, which means they've got lots of books.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  19:16:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message
Hell, if you don't like to give people money, go to the library... just as Dave has said.

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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