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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend

Australia
249 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2005 :  15:33:45  Show Profile Send Dry_vby a Private Message

Do we really want or need a tenth planet.

Here are the reasons against including 2003 UB313 in our solar family:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/space-issues/2005/09/08/1125772634291.html

"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."

Bob Dylan

NubiWan
Skeptic Friend

USA
424 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  09:24:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send NubiWan a Private Message
"Need,""want," since when does, that make any difference to, "what is?" Kicking this old horse, because now a 'moon' has been detected obiting the new 'planet.' Honestly i don't really care one way or another, butt if it waddles like a duck, quarks like a duck, (punny..,no), flys like a duck, its probably a duck...

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0510/02xenamoon/

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9672 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  14:47:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
Because Pluto is so obviously also a kupier-belt object from the beginning, it was a mistake categorizing it as a planet, I think should be discounted as a planet.


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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  16:06:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
"If it looks like a duck,
And quacks like a duck
And there's duck-doo on your pickup truck,
You can bet your bottom buck,
It ain't an armadillo!"

It ain't a planet, either.....


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 10/03/2005 16:07:50
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend

USA
424 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2005 :  21:39:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send NubiWan a Private Message
So, if 'its' "a kupier-belt object," [an object appearing in the kupier-belt], then it can't be a planet..?? Didn't get the memo, how come?

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2005 :  06:20:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by NubiWan

So, if 'its' "a kupier-belt object," [an object appearing in the kupier-belt], then it can't be a planet..?? Didn't get the memo, how come?

That's 'cause I neglected to write one...

But consider: how many major boulders with minor cobbles accompanying them are there in the Kupier Belt? I don't know either, but are we to make planets out of all of them?

And as observation process' gets more exacting, I've no doubt that many more yet will be found.

Perhaps there should be some sort of redesignation for these.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9672 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2005 :  07:25:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
It's more about the composition of them. Pluto may be planetoidal, but if an equally sized Kupier-belt object made a venture through the inner planets it would be the greatest comet ever known to man. They are for the most part big fluffy balls of snow with a density much less than water at room temperature.
(That is true for Saturn as well (not much less, but below 1000Kg/m), but we know that Saturn at least have a solid core.)

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"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend

USA
424 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2005 :  08:52:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send NubiWan a Private Message
OK, thanks, umm.. So its a 'convenition' of convenance, to exclude, what well may be millions of snowballs in the Kupier belt, from consideration as a 'real' planet..? Dunno why a planet, can't be made of snow? Guess my difficulty in understanding this distinction, is with the definition of "planet." I'ld like to keep it it simple, like moi, such as;
a body that orbits a star, is a planet,
a body that orbits a planet, is a moon...
But who asked me.

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9672 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2005 :  13:19:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by NubiWan

OK, thanks, umm.. So its a 'convenition' of convenance, to exclude, what well may be millions of snowballs in the Kupier belt, from consideration as a 'real' planet..? Dunno why a planet, can't be made of snow? Guess my difficulty in understanding this distinction, is with the definition of "planet." I'ld like to keep it it simple, like moi, such as;
a body that orbits a star, is a planet,
a body that orbits a planet, is a moon...
But who asked me.

Technically, anything that orbits a sun or a planet is referred to as a satellite.
The kind of satellite that are sent up by man is called an artificial satellite.

I'll have to research a little further on planets, but right now I don't know of any standard definition of a planet, other than they should have a solid core (not ice).

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2005 :  15:22:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
This is apparently a question that has no answer, at least as yet.
quote:
9 Planets? 12? What's a Planet, Anyway?

By DENNIS OVERBYE
Published: October 4, 2005
In my daughter's circle of friends, one 3-year-old named Jared can reel off the names of all the planets. He and his parents are pretty proud, justly in my estimation, of this achievement. Little does he know, however, that the lords of astronomy are working against him.

For the last 18 months, a committee appointed by the International Astronomical Union has been pondering in frustrating exactitude whether the word "planet" means anything anymore.

Last month Nature reported that the committee was ready to propose dumping the bare term "planet" in favor of an expanded, more embellished set of terms like "terrestrial planets," "trans-Neptunian planets" and so forth.

But that turned out to be a false alarm, according to the committee's chairman, Iwan Williams of Queen Mary College in London. He said in an e-mail message that although a majority favored the redefinition many other ideas were blooming and contending so fractiously that he despaired of ever reaching general agreement.



"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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CourseKnot
Skeptic Friend

USA
82 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2005 :  18:59:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send CourseKnot a Private Message
When I was a kid, Saturn only had 11 moons. Now it has 43 or so. If Saturn can have more moons, and some of them don't look very round, then why can't the solar system have more planets.

Just flying through space with the rest of you...
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2005 :  19:42:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
The Greek word 'planet' means 'wanderer'. The Greeks were naked-eye astronomers, and to them, the planets were those things they could see drifting around in the sky. By this reasoning, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are not planets. On the other hand, now that we know that everything moves, not only are "Ubie" and Pluto planets, but so is Alpha Centauri, Halley's Comet and the Andromeda Galaxy...

...Just to confuse things further.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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CourseKnot
Skeptic Friend

USA
82 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2005 :  04:58:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send CourseKnot a Private Message
I see your point Dave.
Telescopes have changed our view (lol) of the cosmos and so should our definition of "planet" change, at least from it's original meaning. We accept Neptune and Uranus as planets easily enough. Why there's so much contoversy over Pluto and the others is beyond me. If it's big and orbits the sun in a mostly circular route then why not call it a planet?

Just flying through space with the rest of you...
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9672 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2005 :  06:35:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
Pluto has the most elliptical orbit of the nine planets.
In fact, it's so elliptical that during the early eighties, Pluto crossed Neptunes orbit, and temporary became the 8th and not the 9th planet from the sun. It's plane of orbit differs a lot from the rest of the planets.

Edit: Now I became unsure... Maybe Mercury's orbit is more elliptical. But Pluto's is still angled against the rest of the planets, just like most comets are.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 10/06/2005 06:36:56
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2005 :  15:24:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
And now for a completely different argument about this object:

New Planetoid Discovery Sets Off Feud

Appears that ethics in science education might be a bit lacking.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 10/17/2005 15:26:55
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