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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/25/2005 : 11:48:30
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Sure wish I could make it to this.
quote:
Rolling out the red carpet for the world's skeptics
By PAULA VOELL
News Staff Reporter
10/25/2005
Bill Wippert/Buffalo News
"We are committed to science and reason to resolve human problems," says Paul Kurtz.
Looking for the Center for Inquiry's international congress? Just follow the cars with the "I Doubt It" decals.
That's the mantra for the 600 to 800 attendees expected to converge in Buffalo from around the world this week. These are the people who scrutinize and critique what others believe without questioning.
They'll be here for a congress called "Toward a New Enlightenment," meant to respond to assaults on science, reason, free inquiry, secularism and humanist values.
"We are committed to science and reason to resolve human problems," said Paul Kurtz, Center founder. "We are naturalists and recognize that the human species is part of nature. We also recognize the need for raising the level of values and criticizing the banalities of modern culture.
"We're arguing for planetary ethics," said Kurtz, the powerhouse behind all that the Center has spawned - Prometheus books, the area's largest publishing house; the periodicals "Skeptical Inquirer," "Free Inquiry" and "Philo" and the organizations that promote rational inquiry, critically investigate claims of the paranormal and, the newest endeavor, examining alternative medicine and mental health therapies.
The confreres will arrive in Buffalo at a momentous time. They'll be here on the 25th anniversary of the Council for Secular Humanism, the arm of the Center that defends the issues of the nonreligious. They'll be here to witness the expanded Center building, which will double its conference and seminar capacity with an additional 13,600 square feet added to its Amherst site. Mostly, though, they'll be here to talk and to listen to one another.
As usual, all of the hot button issues will be on the table, under the microscope of free inquiry. Included in topics are: "Playing God: Ethical Issues in Euthanasia and Physician-Assisted Suicide," "Science vs. Religion: From the Classroom to String Theory" and "Is Religion the Default Mode?"
Better yet, I wish folks like verlch and many-b's could go. Even the late HYBRID might profit from it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
 Posted - 10/25/2005 : 22:10:33 [Permalink]
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No doubt, people who attend such a wonderful event will come away from it, only to tell their friends, "You won't believe how good it was!"
I think it would only be fitting if UFOs touched down at such a lovely site.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 03:35:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
No doubt, people who attend such a wonderful event will come away from it, only to tell their friends, "You won't believe how good it was!"
I think it would only be fitting if UFOs touched down at such a lovely site.
Oh, so do I! What a kick in the ass that would be!
'S kinda like the Theory of Evolution, isn't it? I would love to see that ever-more-solid turkey righteously debunked in favor of whatever, or better yet, find the negating evidence myself. I think that there are very few skeptics who would pass up the chance to whack it if such came along.
And how grand it would be to see the self-righteous smirks wiped from the faces of the chronic doubters, mine own among them, as "Mr. Carpenter" came to visit....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 07:24:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Originally posted by markie
No doubt, people who attend such a wonderful event will come away from it, only to tell their friends, "You won't believe how good it was!"
I think it would only be fitting if UFOs touched down at such a lovely site.
Oh, so do I! What a kick in the ass that would be!
'S kinda like the Theory of Evolution, isn't it? I would love to see that ever-more-solid turkey righteously debunked in favor of whatever, or better yet, find the negating evidence myself. I think that there are very few skeptics who would pass up the chance to whack it if such came along.
And how grand it would be to see the self-righteous smirks wiped from the faces of the chronic doubters, mine own among them, as "Mr. Carpenter" came to visit....
Hehe, but did you see Paul Kurtz's picture in the article, he looked both profound and serious, no smirks at all. Maybe he would be tickled (or disturbed?) to know that some like myself believe that angels are helping him in his task towards planetary ethical and scientific advancement. :)
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 07:48:05 [Permalink]
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He'd probably just ignore it, M.
But I'd love to see some aliens land. In fact, I'd wish I were there to see them land, for the good or for the bad. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 08:57:33 [Permalink]
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*sigh* whenever I am asked to make a wish, I always wish for the opportunity to study a non-human intelligence...
But I have to be honest with myself - It's not going to happen, the universe is just too vast, both in terms of space and time, for it to be likely that any human will ever have that priviledge. Unless of course we develop artificial intelligence, but that wont happen in my lifetime...
A girl can dream though; a girl can dream...............
EDIT: Grammar |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
| Edited by - Subjectmatter on 10/26/2005 09:03:04 |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 09:33:19 [Permalink]
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| Well Subjectmatter unless your like 70 years old I think you will live long enough to see us develop a truly artificial intelligence on par with (and very quickly surpassing) human intelligence. Just my opinion. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 09:39:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Subjectmatter:
*sigh* whenever I am asked to make a wish, I always wish for the opportunity to study a non-human intelligence...
But I have to be honest with myself - It's not going to happen, the universe is just too vast, both in terms of space and time, for it to be likely that any human will ever have that priviledge. Unless of course we develop artificial intelligence, but that wont happen in my lifetime...
A girl can dream though; a girl can dream...............
Guess I will nit-pick a little here. We have been studying non-human intelligence for many years now. Jane Goodall's study of chimpanzees is an example of that. Then there is Koko, the signing gorilla with a pretty decent vocabulary. Our interest in dolphins and other whales is another example. How bees communicate where a good source of pollen may be found has been studied. Actually, the list is almost endless… Some of these animals may be sentient creatures too. Dolphins come to mind…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 09:56:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Subjectmatter
*sigh* whenever I am asked to make a wish, I always wish for the opportunity to study a non-human intelligence...
But I have to be honest with myself - It's not going to happen, the universe is just too vast, both in terms of space and time, for it to be likely that any human will ever have that priviledge. Unless of course we develop artificial intelligence, but that wont happen in my lifetime...
A girl can dream though; a girl can dream...............
EDIT: Grammar
Alas, alas. I dream and wish the same...
I also dream of being one of those to witness (and perhaps even, who knows, help create) said artificial intelligence.
Alas, this girl can dream, too. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 10:23:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think it would only be fitting if UFOs touched down at such a lovely site.
Well, it wouldn't be a UFO at that point, would it?
And, markie, how you still manage to have such a complete misunderstanding of skeptics after your time here.... is just completely unreal.
You say that like any skeptic witnessing such an event would be outraged, or upset, or something.
You are aware that most of us skeptics are of the opinion that life, probably intelligent, does exist elsewhere in this universe?
What we are so highly skeptical of is the total idiotic nonsense that gets passes around as "evidence" of ETs comming to Earth. The whole abduction, anal-probe, cattle mutilation, etc.. nonsense.
So seriously... most of us would like nothing more than to see a "UFO" filled with ETs land right in front of us. We'd get a kick out of seeing some solid evidence of extra terrestrial life, especially intelligent and technologically advanced enough to travel between stars.
We certainly wouldn't have the reaction you think we would...
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 11:04:30 [Permalink]
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Amen to ^that.
That said I would also like to develop ESP, X-ray vision and a What-if machine, powered by cold-fusion. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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markie
Skeptic Friend
Canada
356 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 12:03:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
I think it would only be fitting if UFOs touched down at such a lovely site.
Well, it wouldn't be a UFO at that point, would it?
I suppose it would depend on whether aliens came out of the craft. It the craft merely touched down and then shot back quickly into the atmosphere and out of sight, many skeptics, still without 'hard' evidence, may still refer to it as 'unidentified' and not leap to any conclusions.
quote:
And, markie, how you still manage to have such a complete misunderstanding of skeptics after your time here.... is just completely unreal.
You say that like any skeptic witnessing such an event would be outraged, or upset, or something.
I don't believe I've ever inferred what the response might be. I suspect something like amusement over such a good joke, to wondering amazement. Then perhaps some philosophical adjustments to one's skepticism.
quote:
You are aware that most of us skeptics are of the opinion that life, probably intelligent, does exist elsewhere in this universe?
Of course, afterall Carl Sagan believed such.
quote:
What we are so highly skeptical of is the total idiotic nonsense that gets passes around as "evidence" of ETs comming to Earth. The whole abduction, anal-probe, cattle mutilation, etc.. nonsense.
It may not be hard evidence, but eyewitness testimony of those judged to be sane is seriously considered in a court of law, especially when it is corroborated by other witnesses.
quote:
So seriously... most of us would like nothing more than to see a "UFO" filled with ETs land right in front of us. We'd get a kick out of seeing some solid evidence of extra terrestrial life, especially intelligent and technologically advanced enough to travel between stars.
I believe it is as you say, except, perhaps, for a portion of the very few who might make a good income debunking such stuff.
I suppose the bottom line is that skeptics 'believe' it is a noble and perhaps beneficial thing to not believe in that for which there is no hard evidence, to not dignify mere wishful thinking with 'belief' if it is outside the realm of the empirically known.
Yes I think understand skeptics quite well :)
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 12:32:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by markie
quote:
And, markie, how you still manage to have such a complete misunderstanding of skeptics after your time here.... is just completely unreal.
You say that like any skeptic witnessing such an event would be outraged, or upset, or something.
I don't believe I've ever inferred what the response might be. I suspect something like amusement over such a good joke, to wondering amazement. Then perhaps some philosophical adjustments to one's skepticism.
I rather suspect that I speak for everyone here when I say that no event would ever make a skeptic make philosophical adjustments to their skepticism! That's would be insane.
Kil: I would not agree that bees could ever be called intelligent as such, not by my understanding of the concept at least. Chimpanzees and dolphins... I wont make any definitive statement, it is an interesting debate. Based on the evidence I have seen however I am still operating on the assumption that they are not intelligent. This is very much subject to revision of course.
I guess what I really would like to study is a non-human intelligence which can form part of a culture. There is no getting around the fact that chimpanzees and dolphins invariably live in a state of nature... |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 13:44:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Subjectmatter:
Kil: I would not agree that bees could ever be called intelligent as such, not by my understanding of the concept at least. Chimpanzees and dolphins... I wont make any definitive statement, it is an interesting debate. Based on the evidence I have seen however I am still operating on the assumption that they are not intelligent. This is very much subject to revision of course.
I guess what I really would like to study is a non-human intelligence which can form part of a culture. There is no getting around the fact that chimpanzees and dolphins invariably live in a state of nature...
Oh well, I never said that bees were sentient. I said that we have and continue to study their intelligence, is all. And, of course, it can't really be argued that they are not non-human. Just not sentient.
With regard to you view Chimps and Dolphins, how are you defining intelligence? And what do you mean by “culture” and “a state of nature?” Dolphins live in an alien environment. Why would we expect them to alter their surroundings if where they live works for them? Chimpanzees certainly do have a culture and do alter their surroundings. In fact, many animals do. So I would not necessarily use those criteria as a test of a sentient kind of intelligence, which is what we are talking about here, right?
Dolphins
Chimps
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 14:20:12 [Permalink]
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It is not easy to define 'intelligence.' I have known horses that learned to work the latch on their stalls, and my humble shack has had to be made 'possum-proof. That greedy, little bugger can pop open a cabinet or buglarize a garbage can in less time than it takes to tell it.
Anyone who has had experience with raccoons will tell you, with clenched teeth and blazing eyes, how fast those things learn.
I think that if we were to actually meet alien (as in like Star Trek) intelligence, we might not be able to recognize it as such. And vise-versa...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 14:52:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
It is not easy to define 'intelligence.' I have known horses that learned to work the latch on their stalls, and my humble shack has had to be made 'possum-proof. That greedy, little bugger can pop open a cabinet or buglarize a garbage can in less time than it takes to tell it.
Anyone who has had experience with raccoons will tell you, with clenched teeth and blazing eyes, how fast those things learn.
I think that if we were to actually meet alien (as in like Star Trek) intelligence, we might not be able to recognize it as such. And vise-versa...
I've known a horse who was able to not only open his stall, but also learned to knock on his trainer's door (it was a physical therapy facility; the two guys responsible for the horses live there and sleep near the stalls) to wake him and even open the tap so he could drink. The tap was outside his stall and had to be made horse-proof. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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