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melon1
New Member

4 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2005 :  11:50:13  Show Profile Send melon1 a Private Message
Just saw this on the Sci-Fi channel. Does anyone else feel some hostility towards the people who make these farces? Individuals lying about supernatural experiences to get attention is one thing, but deliberate hoaxes involving hired actors and props to make money really piss me off. This guy wrote a book about "Project Isis" involving the discovery of a 13,000 year old tomb of a grey in Egypt by the KGB. There is even camcorder footage of a cult of "followers" consisting of people who worked on the project walking out into the middle of the desert in 1985 and being abducted in a flash of light. During the abduction, the cameraman conveniently focuses on the faces of the awe-struck cultists with the bright light off screen for several seconds before finally turing into the light. A second later, the camera falls to the ground. Oh, and there are two close ups of individual wide-eyed cultists during the event that just happen to be the parents of a beautiful russian woman interviewed during the documentary. We are even allowed to see her first viewing of the recovered camcorder footage and her emotional reaction when she sees her parents on tape who supposedly disappeared in 1985. When the author of the book put his arm around her to comfort her as she pretended to weep, (no actual tears, of course) I almost turned the TV off.

The camcorder footage is what did it for me. That such an obvious hoax would find its way into a "documentary" shows me that everything else in the documentary is suspect at the very least. And when "everything else" happens to be a sensational story that turns boring old human history on its head with a book available for more details, and then packaged onto a DVD and sold, I am blown away that it is labeled a documentary.

I consider myself an open minded guy. I can easily forgive mistakes, and can even admit it when I can't explain something, but I feel insulted when someone thinks that the general public is dumb enough to be fooled into believing some blatantly concocted story. Of course there are lots of people out there who want believe and therefore accept everything that seems to support what they want to be the case, and will gladly give away their money in order to hear more about it, but I hate to think that the human race in general is that stupid. Things like this "documentary" make me lose my faith in capitalism. What have we become? Why do the New York Times and TBS treat it as a serious documentary? Do they think that the book is serious, or do they think the money generated from advertising and the like is serious?

Things like this also make me thankful that boards like these are around.

Edited by - melon1 on 12/01/2005 11:56:00

Valiant Dancer
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USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2005 :  13:53:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
..... You do realize that the Sci-Fi channel is not like the History channel where they have actual documentaries.

Their "documentaries" consist of really interesting fiction sometimes. I have yet to see them do a serious documentary. I did get on the Discovery channel for something they aired in documentary form, but that is a different case as they try to pass themselves off as a legitamate documentary channel.

I do feel hostility over procuded pieced being touted as a documentary. This, however, appears to be different. It exists for the sake of entertainment alone.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2005 :  14:03:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
Welcome to SFN melon1



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2005 :  14:59:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Welcome to the SFN melon1.

quote:
You do realize that the Sci-Fi channel is not like the History channel where they have actual documentaries.


The history channel is particularly bad when it comes to UFOs and aliens. The message I get from this history channel is, "There is something going on here, we're not quite sure what, but it is definitely something." One particular one ended with talking about how we have had an extremely sharp boom in technology which skeptics can't explain, and one explanation for it is alien technology recovered from Roswell.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2005 :  19:48:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You do realize that the Sci-Fi channel is not like the History channel where they have actual documentaries.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The history channel is particularly bad when it comes to UFOs and aliens. The message I get from this history channel is, "There is something going on here, we're not quite sure what, but it is definitely something." One particular one ended with talking about how we have had an extremely sharp boom in technology which skeptics can't explain, and one explanation for it is alien technology recovered from Roswell.


History Channel does have a lot of UFO/Alien/bible prophecy/Nostradamus/etc tripe. Other than the occasional "Modern Marvels", there's little of much serious interest there.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular

501 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2005 :  22:52:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ronnywhite a Private Message
Welcome to SFN, m1... yea, as Valient Dancer suggests, it's definately the Science Fiction Channel (with emphasis on Fiction). I doubt even their producers would dispute that (off camera) with a straight face. I like some of their corny movies, though.

Ron White
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2005 :  10:48:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
The supposed 'found' footage isn't even original. They probably got the idea from the Blair Witch Project.
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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2005 :  11:37:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
The Sci-Fi Channel is running a lot of that kind of material this week. It may be an effort to pique our collective interest in aliens and other unknowns because of an upcoming Sci-Fi Channel show, The Triangle. The movie stars Eric Stolz (Pulp Fiction, Mask), Catherine Bell (JAG), Bruce Davidson (X-Men) and Sam Neil (Jurassic Park). I'm not sure exactly when, but the ads say it premiers in December 2005, and is hyped as follows:
"Set against the mysteries of the Bermuda Triangle, this 3-night, 6-hour SCI FI channel mini event will focus on a disparate group of professionals, brought together to investigate the dangerous truths behind one of the greatest legends of our time."
And welcome to SFN, melon1.
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melon1
New Member

4 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2005 :  11:50:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send melon1 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

..... You do realize that the Sci-Fi channel is not like the History channel where they have actual documentaries.

Their "documentaries" consist of really interesting fiction sometimes. I have yet to see them do a serious documentary. I did get on the Discovery channel for something they aired in documentary form, but that is a different case as they try to pass themselves off as a legitamate documentary channel.

I do feel hostility over procuded pieced being touted as a documentary. This, however, appears to be different. It exists for the sake of entertainment alone.



It did occur to me that the channel was "sci-fi," but I try not to assume that the credibility of individual programs necessarily reflects the credibility of the channel itself, (unavoidable as this may be.) This particular program was passed off as a true documentary of unexplained events, and was clearly intended to be educational, as opposed to a program of pure sci-fi entertainment value. I believe that it was also aired on TBS at one point. In any case, there seem to be a whole slew of "secret KGB" documentaries involving paranormal phenomena. I do believe that they all are passed off as educational documentaries, though I suppose a "blair witch" situation, in the sense that the producers are intentionally making a realistic documentary about events that it assumes the audience knows to be fictitious, is possible. If the latter was indeed their intent, they certainly did a good job with seriously simulating an actual documentary, and they seem to have accidently fooled a relatively large number of people.
Edited by - melon1 on 12/02/2005 11:51:49
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2005 :  14:18:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by melon1

quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

..... You do realize that the Sci-Fi channel is not like the History channel where they have actual documentaries.

Their "documentaries" consist of really interesting fiction sometimes. I have yet to see them do a serious documentary. I did get on the Discovery channel for something they aired in documentary form, but that is a different case as they try to pass themselves off as a legitamate documentary channel.

I do feel hostility over procuded pieced being touted as a documentary. This, however, appears to be different. It exists for the sake of entertainment alone.



It did occur to me that the channel was "sci-fi," but I try not to assume that the credibility of individual programs necessarily reflects the credibility of the channel itself, (unavoidable as this may be.) This particular program was passed off as a true documentary of unexplained events, and was clearly intended to be educational, as opposed to a program of pure sci-fi entertainment value. I believe that it was also aired on TBS at one point. In any case, there seem to be a whole slew of "secret KGB" documentaries involving paranormal phenomena. I do believe that they all are passed off as educational documentaries, though I suppose a "blair witch" situation, in the sense that the producers are intentionally making a realistic documentary about events that it assumes the audience knows to be fictitious, is possible. If the latter was indeed their intent, they certainly did a good job with seriously simulating an actual documentary, and they seem to have accidently fooled a relatively large number of people.



One thing to watch for. The KGB was disbanded in November of 1991. It's function was taken over by the operationally similar FSB. If the documentary refers to the KGB after 1991 (except in Belarius as a part of the Belarian government), it isn't genuine.

This documentary is getting a lot of conspiracy EBBS board time (AboveTopSecret, etc). It's fronted by Roger Moore, not any sort of scientist or investigator. I'd really doubt this event ever happened.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular

501 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2005 :  16:16:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ronnywhite a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by melon1

... but I try not to assume that the credibility of individual programs necessarily reflects the credibility of the channel itself...


In their case, I think you can feel free to assume-away... I don't pay them a great deal of attention other then something for a little noise sometimes, but I think they're the ones who had John Edwards, The Pet Psychic, and a lot of other outrageous stupidity (excuse if I'm mistaken, but if another channel's responsible, they're a virtual clone.)

Good call on the "Blair Witch" bit, beskep... as you mention it, I'm suprised a few more haven't played that angle, successful as it was.

Ron White
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2005 :  00:21:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite

...but I think they're the ones who had John Edwards, The Pet Psychic, and a lot of other outrageous stupidity (excuse if I'm mistaken, but if another channel's responsible, they're a virtual clone.)
Well, Jon Edward's show was actually on the SciFi Channel. The Pet Psychic was on the either Animal Planet or The Learning Channel (or maybe the Discovery channel).

But, it doesn't take long to learn that Animal Planet, The Learning Channel, the Discovery Channel, the History Channel and the SciFi Channel are all owned by the same network company. The best of that company's offerings is undoubtedly the Discovery Science Channel, but I think even their offerings are going downhill as people clamor for the outrageous.

Other than the NASA Channel, the only way people are going to get good science-oriented cable channels is to actually watch TV. Every channel operator is beholden to the advertisers for their income. If skeptics were to, as a group, "religiously" watch a particular cable channel, and (also as a group) threaten to do something else if the shows suck, then the programming would be more-or-less dictated by the viewers (us).

But, skeptics seem to also generally be individualists, and thus not likely to agree to something so banal as cable-channel viewing in a large-enough group to get the clout to "ban" the phonies and sensationalists. Plus, it would take a lot of patience for such power to be realized.

I mean, I watched the Discover Science Channel for a few weeks on priciple after I found my new cable company carried it on their basic tier, but there's only so-many repeats of "Modern Marvels" one can take...

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2005 :  08:55:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Mm, I've never seen Pet Psychic on Animal Planet, and I watch it a lot. The only thing remotely resembling woo woo I've ever seen on that channel was Animal Mysteries, but it usually just told tales of animals (like, werewolf) and compared them with reality (real wolf behavior). Then again, maybe Animal Planet Brazil has a different programme. The is Animal Miracles, but those are just animals who help their owners, such as warning in case of fire or helping handicapped children to recover and such.

I have seen John Edwards on People & Arts, though. It scared me.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Trish
SFN Addict

USA
2102 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2005 :  21:44:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Trish a Private Message
Pet Psychic was on Animal Planet. I think it didn't go over too well with a lot of viewers. But then again, I don't have cable and only get reports about the silliness of cable/satellite from my kid. Who essentially thought the advertising for Pet Psychic was a bit goofy anyway.

...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular

501 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2005 :  13:29:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ronnywhite a Private Message
Yeah, now I recall... it was Animal Planet (as mentioned, I really don't pay very much attention to these things) and Animal Planet seemed to be one of the better offerings of that "herd" of channels. RE science shows, PBS impresses me as still being a better bet (don't know if you get PBS out in Brazil, Siberia, but I bet you probably do.) Even the Discover Channel was so-so... based on the small number of shows I've seen, most were "OK" and just a couple were "Good." "Engineering Disasters" (I think that might have been History Channel, though) was typical of one of the better science-oriented shows from that collection... most topics were "OK" (beats watching The Flintstones) but just a couple I found particularly interesting, or "Good". I guess they have to keep the material "normalized" to maximize market interest, and they do manage to make the stuff decent enough to keep me from hitting the Three Stooges reruns on the remote (most of the time, anyway.)

Ron White
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2005 :  07:17:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia

Mm, I've never seen Pet Psychic on Animal Planet, and I watch it a lot. The only thing remotely resembling woo woo I've ever seen on that channel was Animal Mysteries, but it usually just told tales of animals (like, werewolf) and compared them with reality (real wolf behavior). Then again, maybe Animal Planet Brazil has a different programme. The is Animal Miracles, but those are just animals who help their owners, such as warning in case of fire or helping handicapped children to recover and such.

I have seen John Edwards on People & Arts, though. It scared me.



It was on Animal Planet (US). Evidentially, the Brazilian government has some objections to complete tripe.

I watched it breifly to see what this chick was up to.

I'm figuring 100 USD per hour.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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