|
|
|
Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
 Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:19:42 [Permalink]
|
Bill, Bill, Bill, slow down. You're foaming at the mouth. Your "arguments" (and I use that term loosely) are nothing but the same old tired rants that are basically "I know you are but what am I?", Straw Man Arguments and gross mischaracterizations.
Missing Links? Please, that's so 1950's. How about the old moon dust argument? Your rants are but another repetition of the same stuff we've heard time and time again. People have come to this board much like you and time after time, skeptics here have patiently tried to explain the principles and the response is always the same: hand-waving dismissal of evidence, claims of some grand scientist/atheist/satanic/liberal conspiracy, and the blind refusal to accept anything that smacks of evolution.
So why should we waste our time convincing you? How are you different and more open-minded? Are you against the heliocentric solar system theory? After all, it's "just a theory". |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
 |
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:20:47 [Permalink]
|
My question/point was and remains why do evolutionist's feel they have a right to force their philosophy down my kids throat at school when other worldviews are not given the time of day? Either all philosophical worldviews should presented or none. Why is evolution philosophy the only religion/worldview allowed presented to kids by the government? [/quote]
Sorry but you have a sadly naive, mistaken, and I suspect, an inflexible view of evolution which is completely false. Evolution is not "forced down your kid's throat" anymore than a heliocentric view of the solar system is forced down his/her throat. A heliocentric solar system is FACT. Gravity is a FACT, not "Intelligent Sucking". Earth as a sphere is a FACT vs. a Flat Earth.
(bill)Your logic would hold true if evolution were a fact. It is not. It is a philosopical worlview that it's suppoters hold fast to despite a complete lack of evidence to prop it up.
And (hold on to your seat) evolution is a FACT. Evolution is NOT a philosophy. Evolution is NOT a religion. For you to think it as either, speaks volumes of your ignorance.
(bill) In your words please give me few facts.
But if you want to stunt your child's education, take him or her out of school. Heck, Einstein's general theory of relativity devastates creationism much more than Darwin ever did.
(bill) where are all the mising links that charlie predicted we would find? Tommy could not find them for me.
Is your faith and belief in God so fragile, so feeble, so tenuous, that exposure to alternative ideas threatens it? What a sad commentary on the strength of your beliefs.
(bill) funny that was my whole point. Evolutiary philospy is so bankrupted and proped up by smoke and mirrors that skeptics have a cow if any body even wants to offer a conter measure. They will not even let the other worldview be presented and let the student make up there own mind. They would rather feed the kid their philospy only and keep out all competing views |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:24:30 [Permalink]
|
quote:
(bill) funny that was my whole point. Evolutiary philospy is so bankrupted and proped up by smoke and mirrors that skeptics have a cow if any body even wants to offer a conter measure. They will not even let the other worldview be presented and let the student make up there own mind. They would rather feed the kid their philospy only and keep out all competing views
Bankrupted? How so? And what would you replace it with?
 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:25:25 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
[
Welcome to SFN, Bill!
Thanks. but you failed to address my point. We can debate evolution/creation all day long and little would change for both us. I have already done this with Tommy. My question/point was and remains why do evolutionist's feel they have a right to force their philosophy down my kids throat at school when other worldviews are not given the time of day? Either all philosophical worldviews should presented or none. Why is evolution philosophy the only religion/worldview allowed presented to kids by the government? In fact making it a state sponsored religion worldview. The precise same thing the evolutionary camp cries about. Seems pretty much like hypocrisy to me...
[/quote]
There are mounds of evidence for evolution. It is not a philosophy, but rather a scentific theory. One of the most recent and rather compelling of these is the appearance of the Nylon Bug (a species of flavobacterium).
Evolution has a rightful place in a science course as it has strong evidence to support it. Creationism/ID belongs in a comparative religion course and, in fact, is included in the comparative religion courses of several schools soon to include Dover, PA. Creationism makes no scientific claim and seeks to overthrow evolution by trying to set itself up as a competing theory and casting aspersions on evolution. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:30:38 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fripp
Bill, Bill, Bill, slow down. You're foaming at the mouth. Your "arguments" (and I use that term loosely) are nothing but the same old tired rants that are basically "I know you are but what am I?", Straw Man Arguments and gross mischaracterizations.
(bill) How does blind chance program with reason?
Missing Links? Please, that's so 1950's. How about the old moon dust argument? Your rants are but another repetition of the same stuff we've heard time and time again. People have come to this board much like you and time after time, skeptics here have patiently tried to explain the principles and the response is always the same: hand-waving dismissal of evidence, claims of some grand scientist/atheist/satanic/liberal conspiracy, and the blind refusal to accept anything that smacks of evolution.
(bill)where are all the missing links? millions of years of transformation of speices and we have none?!?!?! Where are they?
So why should we waste our time convincing you? How are you different and more open-minded? Are you against the heliocentric solar system theory? After all, it's "just a theory".
(bill) Where are the missing links? Millions of years of evolution and no missing links. Where are they?
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:36:17 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
Your logic would hold true if evolution were a fact. It is not. It is a philosopical worlview that it's suppoters hold fast to despite a complete lack of evidence to prop it up.
In your words please give me few facts.
where are all the mising links that charlie predicted we would find? Tommy could not find them for me.
funny that was my whole point. Evolutiary philospy is so bankrupted and proped up by smoke and mirrors that skeptics have a cow if any body even wants to offer a conter measure. They will not even let the other worldview be presented and let the student make up there own mind. They would rather feed the kid their philospy only and keep out all competing views
You know, I was going to quickly present the link to the nylon bug, a bacteria that digests nylon? How could a bug develop a taste for nylon without evolution. And the links to TalkOrigins above provide so much evidence supporting evolution, and present it in a coherent clearly and non-confrontational way that you would be better served to read that before presenting your arguments.
But why should I waste my time as I have ten computers that I have to link up to a network here and you have demonstrated no interest in a rational discussion.
Why are you resistant to reading the information? Obviously you have a well-developed bullsh** detector. Posting your arguments here in the manner that you are is an exercise in futility. You obviously are only interested in spouting claims that evolution is a philosophy, a religion. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:40:09 [Permalink]
|
quote:
(bill) Where are the missing links? Millions of years of evolution and no missing links. Where are they?
I showed some of them to you, bro. All you have to do is read the fucking paper. Yeesh!
Ok, you are not interested in anyone else' comments or evidences. Then put forth some of your own:
1. How has evolution been falsified?
2. What would you replace the ToE with in the class room?
3. Are you here to rant or discuss?
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:43:53 [Permalink]
|
CD predicted transitional lifeforms. He thought fossils would inevitably follow. We have learned much about fossils since then. The mechanism by which fossilization occurs is rather rare. If even on element is missing, the fossil will not form. (If everything that died turned into a fossil, we'd be up to our eyeballs in fossils.)
(bill) yet we have millions of fossils unearthed that show fully formed speices as we know them and none that transformation even though the transition would have happened over millions of years. Fully formed fossil = millions while Transtional fossil = zero (sad)
quote:
2. How can blind random mutations "program" for a "reason" like Tommy want's all to believe.
Limitiation of the flesh. Blind random mutations create a difference, those that do not harm or aid the organisms feeding or reproduction cycles will tend to be passed on. Those which do not, will tend not. These are tendencies, not absolutes.
(bill)give me one example in nature of random processes creating vast amounts of inormation
quote:
3. Is the universe eternal or did have a point in time where it began to exist?
This question is not related to Evolution (critters turning into other critters). This is related to Cosmology. You may wish to link it by way of Abiogenesis, but that is similarly invalid.
(bill) Oh great, the warm little pond again...
TO does provide quite a good discussion on this. It is why it is used as a reference. If you are concerned that it is instead a propaganda site, there are several books you can pick up in the library such as Origin of Species by CD which may dispell some of the outright lies that some religious organization have been circulating about his work. The journal Nature will have several issues which will expand your understanding. Any competent university will have access to these publications and indexes to the publications.
(bill) Is that where CD wonders why no TF have been unearthed and why I wonder the same thing 150 years later? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:46:55 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
I came here for some answers to the obvious fact that evolution is a religon or worlview so why do skeptics feel they have a right to rame this view down my kids throat with my tax money?
How is it obvious that Evolution is a faith; a philosophy?
(bill) No empiracial evidence.
And what would you replace it with?
(bill)Reality..
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:52:57 [Permalink]
|
There are mounds of evidence for evolution. It is not a philosophy, but rather a scentific theory. One of the most recent and rather compelling of these is the appearance of the Nylon Bug (a species of flavobacterium).
(Bill) when you can show me your little nylon bug turning into a wolf then we can talk. Better yet just guide me to nearest natural history mueseum so I can see the TF for myself? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:53:52 [Permalink]
|
quote:
(bill)Reality
Uh-huh, and this Reality is....?
Thus far, all you have done is wave your hands and put forth nothing of substance. If you can debunk the ToE, please proceed to do so. Mere statements won't cut it, by the way. Provide links and evidences that we can research; and we will do that research. Some of us actually like research.
Edit: quote:
(Bill) when you can show me your little nylon bug turning into a wolf then we can talk. Better yet just guide me to nearest natural history mueseum so I can see the TF for myself?
Now you're being plain silly. You really need to start ignoring hovind -- he's an idiot.
Go back and read the research done by Cuffy!
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
| Edited by - filthy on 12/21/2005 13:57:28 |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:58:06 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
(bill) Where are the missing links? Millions of years of evolution and no missing links. Where are they?
I showed some of them to you, bro. All you have to do is read the fucking paper. Yeesh!
(bill) what mueseum did you say I could go to and see a real live (pardon the pun) missing link or transtional fossil? Please don't give me any more links to cyberspace. I want a location of a missing link on display for all to see. Maybe a dog durning into a whale or a nylon bug turning into a monkey that would be cool. There are many TF and ML on display around the country right?
Ok, you are not interested in anyone else' comments or evidences. Then put forth some of your own:
1. How has evolution been falsified?
(bill) the fossil record
2. What would you replace the ToE with in the class room?
(bill) reality
3. Are you here to rant or discuss?
(bill) discuss
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 14:07:59 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
(bill)Reality
Uh-huh, and this Reality is....?
Thus far, all you have done is wave your hands and put forth nothing of substance. If you can debunk the ToE, please proceed to do so. Mere statements won't cut it, by the way. Provide links and evidences that we can research; and we will do that research. Some of us actually like research.
(bill) just give me an adress to the mueseum of your choice who has your personal favorite TF or ML on display. With millions found in their current state we should have more showing transtion. Where are they?
Edit: quote:
(Bill) when you can show me your little nylon bug turning into a wolf then we can talk. Better yet just guide me to nearest natural history mueseum so I can see the TF for myself?
Now you're being plain silly. You really need to start ignoring hovind -- he's an idiot.
(bill) Who?
Go back and read the research done by Cuffy!
(bill) better yet maybe Cuffy and myself can go to the mueseum of his choice and visit all the ML anf TF already on display.
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 14:10:44 [Permalink]
|
Here's another interesting animal from the Devonian, and much older than the Thecodonts:
quote:
The most primitive foot to walk on land has been described by scientists.
It belonged to an animal that lived about 345 million years ago - in what is now Scotland.
This fossil fills in a huge (20-million-year) gap in the fossil record
Dr Jenny Clack
The skeletal remains are the oldest in the fossil record to show bones that had the ability to move on land.
Dr Jenny Clack, who has studied the specimen, says it illustrates how life on Earth made the transition from a purely water-borne existence to one where creatures were able to forage on the shoreline.
"This is the first proper, walking foot," she told BBC News Online. "We have earlier feet, but they were for paddling - for swimming."
This picture shows a structure on the hind foot that aids in walking. all other, older fossils lacked it.
Fascinating, no?
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 14:15:18 [Permalink]
|
quote:
(bill) better yet maybe Cuffy and myself can go to the mueseum of his choice and visit all the ML anf TF already on display.
Mere idiotic taunts -- they don't work in here. We got thick skins.
I remind you again of my questions:
What is your version of reality?
What would you replace the ToE with in the schools?
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
