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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 12/28/2005 : 15:06:34
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From a site with Daniel Dennett's* comments on the Dover decision:quote:
Gods have been given many job descriptions over the centuries, and science has conflicted with many of them. Astronomy conflicts with the idea of a god, the sun, driving a fiery chariot pulled by winged horses - a divine charioteer. Geology conflicts with the idea of a god who sculpted the Earth a few thousand years ago – a divine planet-former. Biology conflicts with the idea of a god who designed and built the different living species and all their working parts – a divine creator. We don't ban astronomy and geology from science classes because they conflict with those backward religious doctrines, and we should also acknowledge that evolutionary biology does conflict with the idea of a divine creator and nevertheless belongs in science classes because it is good science.
*Daniel Dennett is University Professor and Austin B. Fletcher Professor of Philosophy, and Director of the Center for Cognitive Studies at Tufts University. His many books include Darwin's Dangerous Idea and Freedom Evolves.
Aside from the arguments of what does or doesn't belong in science classes is the the blaring fact that the Bible contains all the same silly stories as all the other religious doctrines. We call them Greek Myths, creation stories, religious beliefs, fables, and so on. Why on Earth isn't it obvious to the billions of Bible believers that their book is just as much myth as any of the rest? It boggles my mind that so many people believe in such folly.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2005 : 16:32:23 [Permalink]
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Thanks for bringing the article to our attention, beskeptigal. It's an interesting point of view for sure. I take issue, to some very minor extent, with one of Dennett's comments. He said...quote:
Originally written by Daniel Dennett...
If they said that the theory of evolution in no way conflicts with the existence of a divine creator, then I must say that I find that claim to be disingenuous. The theory of evolution demolishes the best reason anyone has ever suggested for believing in a divine creator.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't personally believe life appeared in a lifeless universe through the magical intervention of some divine creator. But I have heard some less dogmatic creation supporters claim their god created life, in a definitive sense, then from that instant of creation it evolved to become the variety of forms that exist today. Even in our debates about evolution on these forums we don't equate the origin of life with the evolution of life. So I'm not sure "creation" necessarily always means a supernatural being magically created life as it exists in its current form. Therefore, in one manner of thinking, Judge Jones' comment that, "[evolution] in no way conflicts with, nor does it deny, the existence of a divine creator," isn't necessarily completely off the mark.
But I digress. Perhaps there is some innate human need to believe in the supernatural, magic, or gods. People have been clinging tightly to religions in one form or another for, well, nearly forever (relative to the time frame of human existence, of course). People go to churches, have séances, look for four leaved clovers, pull wishbones, blow out birthday candles, say "bless you", wish on stars, wear charms, etc. We'd probably find that even the most devout skeptics (is there such a thing?), when pressed, have some gnawing little susperstition they can't quite let go. For all practical purposes people have always believed in some things they can't prove, things for which no real evidence exists. There seems to be a good possibility they always will.
Even the less superstitious element regularly seeks out an escape from reality. People go to magic shows, magicians being some of the highest paid entertainers of all time, even though the typical spectator doesn't "believe" the magic is real. People go to movies that feature special effects, that criteria often being more important to them than even the plot, acting, or other important components. People take hallucinogenic medications, ingest mind altering foods like mushrooms, meditate in an attempt to transcend their current reality, and subject themselves to hypnosis and other sorts of quackery.quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal...
Why on Earth isn't it obvious to the billions of Bible believers that their book is just as much myth as any of the rest? It boggles my mind that so many people believe in such folly.
Of course I can't provide any statistical evidence that a pursuit of the supernatural is an innate need, but the sheer quantity and consistency of these types of human endeavors leads me to consider it as one possible answer to that question. It boggles my mind. too.
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2005 : 16:35:03 [Permalink]
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| Reality is boring, and death is scary. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2005 : 16:56:00 [Permalink]
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And fantasy is cool.
I like fantasy. That's why I avidly read, play and write it. That's what makes me happy when I'm sad. But that's just me. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2005 : 19:35:20 [Permalink]
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The Panda's Thumb also has a (long) thread on these same comments, which inspired quite a discussion.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 17:20:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Bible vs. Science. 
Wow, I was sure Bible would win. What a pleasant surprise it lost by so much. Perhaps when I have some time I'll try a few more words. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 17:22:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
The Panda's Thumb also has a (long) thread on these same comments, which inspired quite a discussion.
Thanks. I'll look that thread over tonight. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 19:38:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Perhaps when I have some time I'll try a few more words.
Well, the SFN abused Googlefight back in April. Lots of good fights and tips in that thread.
Heyyy, waitaminute... You participated in that thread. You even picked on Kilik in that thread! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 05:12:40 [Permalink]
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| Well, then again... they call it creation science. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2005 : 14:39:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Perhaps when I have some time I'll try a few more words.
Well, the SFN abused Googlefight back in April. Lots of good fights and tips in that thread.
Heyyy, waitaminute... You participated in that thread. You even picked on Kilik in that thread!
I know. I didn't mean to imply I hadn't played the game before. I thought Jesus won over the Beatles but I have since forgotten all the outcomes. I recall religion won over science by a long shot. Perhaps my memory here is false. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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Topic Locked
