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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 01/19/2006 : 17:40:34
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Feds Seek Google Records On Porn
I could have continued this on the fresh air thread or start a new one. It seemed to be related.
This is mind boggling. Does anyone really want your library records and your Google searches regularly mined for data by the Feds?
I don't care if they want to search with cause or a warrant but this is frightening.
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 18:06:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
This is mind boggling. Does anyone really want your library records and your Google searches regularly mined for data by the Feds?
I don't care if they want to search with cause or a warrant but this is frightening.
I don't particulary care if Google/The local library hand over records of the numbers of times a particular search is performed or book is borrowed. That people like porn is not going to be a major news item, IMHO. It's when they freely hand over the related information allowing the identification of the underlying searchers/borrowers that the potential for abuse becomes serious.
One could argue that honeypots or triggers for searches such as "How do I make a really nasty weapon and stuff", "How can I download pictures of inappropriate demographics" or similar could be somewhat justifed, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. I feel that attempting to enlist private entities, like Google or ISP's, as part of "security" infrastructure is not a good thing. If we're going to make them part of the process, then we need to have the approriate systems (be they procedural or technical) in place to make sure it get's done correctly, and these sorts of entities really aren't cut out for that sort of job, nor should they be, in my opinion.
If you're interested in a particular individual's on-line habits, that's what telephone interception warrants are for, at least in this country. Getting one requires a fair bit of work in Oz, and won't be issued for purely investigative purposes, aka "fishing trips". That's not to say that some agencies might do whatever they seem fit, but without ISP or search engine company co-operation, they are limited somewhat. |
John's just this guy, you know. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 20:23:40 [Permalink]
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From the article:Google has refused to comply with the subpoena, issued last year, for a broad range of material from its databases, including a request for 1 million random Web addresses and records of all Google searches from any one-week period... For no other reason than to be a pain in the ass, I would give the Feds everything they ask for, but on paper, single-sided in a 48-point font and double-spaced. In a random order. I'd drive the van-load of "evidence" to them myself, tip my hat and say, "have fun looking through that, folks."
There'd be about 100 pages per thousand pieces of data, and it looks like they're asking for several million. At 500 sheets per ream of paper, it'd be, say, 1,000 reams' worth. About 100 of the typical printer-paper cartons. At the very least, a small army of temporary clerks would be gainfully employed for a couple weeks as they typed all the stuff into a database. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2006 : 23:12:40 [Permalink]
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| Within the US (I can't comment on elsewhere), I'm a little skeptical of "privacy of information" anyway, in a practical sense- meaning other than what qualifies as "admissible in courts" (the technical sense.) The revelation as of a few years ago that during tax season- when the IRS takes on a huge temporary army of clerical workers- many of these workers, given access to the IRS database, had been pulling up files on their friends, enemies(?), and (humorously) various other people they had an interest in- including (most frequently) Hollywood actors, musicians and other entertainers, sports stars, and other celebrities. That hit the newspapers and the "hole was plugged," but I suspect it's the "tip of the ice berg." Realistically, aside from situations similarly lacking controls and accountibility, I wonder how many ISP (or other) employees- presented with some cash, coersion, or otherwise given incentive- would grant someone access to such information if they could do so with impunity. I suspect quite a few. With the human element involved, it just "comes with the territory." |
Ron White |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 01:23:36 [Permalink]
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| Good for Google for resisting this fishing exedition, I say. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 03:37:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
From the article:Google has refused to comply with the subpoena, issued last year, for a broad range of material from its databases, including a request for 1 million random Web addresses and records of all Google searches from any one-week period... For no other reason than to be a pain in the ass, I would give the Feds everything they ask for, but on paper, single-sided in a 48-point font and double-spaced. In a random order. I'd drive the van-load of "evidence" to them myself, tip my hat and say, "have fun looking through that, folks."
There'd be about 100 pages per thousand pieces of data, and it looks like they're asking for several million. At 500 sheets per ream of paper, it'd be, say, 1,000 reams' worth. About 100 of the typical printer-paper cartons. At the very least, a small army of temporary clerks would be gainfully employed for a couple weeks as they typed all the stuff into a database.
That's a good idea, like the folks who've paid their taxes with pennies. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 03:53:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnOAS
...
I don't particulary care if Google/The local library hand over records of the numbers of times a particular search is performed or book is borrowed. That people like porn is not going to be a major news item, IMHO. It's when they freely hand over the related information allowing the identification of the underlying searchers/borrowers that the potential for abuse becomes serious.
One could argue that honeypots or triggers for searches such as "How do I make a really nasty weapon and stuff", "How can I download pictures of inappropriate demographics" or similar could be somewhat justifed, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. I feel that attempting to enlist private entities, like Google or ISP's, as part of "security" infrastructure is not a good thing. If we're going to make them part of the process, then we need to have the approriate systems (be they procedural or technical) in place to make sure it get's done correctly, and these sorts of entities really aren't cut out for that sort of job, nor should they be, in my opinion.
If you're interested in a particular individual's on-line habits, that's what telephone interception warrants are for, at least in this country. Getting one requires a fair bit of work in Oz, and won't be issued for purely investigative purposes, aka "fishing trips". That's not to say that some agencies might do whatever they seem fit, but without ISP or search engine company co-operation, they are limited somewhat.
As it is now we are on the verge of there being so many data bases out there that are being accessed by marketers, criminals, the government that alone is truly getting worrisome.
How many of you have taken those steps that come in your VISA or bank statement every few months explaining their "privacy policy" and how to block some of the data selling they do with your information? It's hopeless. You could spend hours but since the data is out there from past release or your other credit card or your mortgage company or from what the cell phone employee secretly sold to the companies who you can now buy everyone's cell phone records from, it isn't worth the effort.
We do not need the Republican social police out there gathering even more information to use to slap controls on the porn industry. They can chase down all the kiddy porn creeps they want as it is. All they have to do is the same thing the perverts do, go on line and try to buy the stuff then get warrants for the ISP's customer info on the dealer.
Doesn't it strike you as odd the Republicans, (who control all the new legislation so who I assume is doing this, correct me if I am wrong), want to study people's porn habits? You know, those same people who want to outlaw birth control and gays, who want the 10 commandments in the courthouse, etc etc. It's nothing but a bunch of religious fundamentalist wanting to put more of God's Laws on the books. These people are sick. And regardless of whether this move in itself is a problem, the trend certainly is very worrisome. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 01/20/2006 03:54:28 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 05:05:21 [Permalink]
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I think that they're trying to find the best kiddie-porn sites for their own viewing.....
Hey, it stands to reason; of all the busts on the genre, as well as for child abuse, a great many seem to involve fundie perverts and I wonder what the statistics on that might be.
Wasn't it Rev. James Dobson who recommended that fathers take showers with their young sons in order to show them that they too, have a penis, and thereby discourage homosexuality? Yes, yes, I believe it was, and if I were of a nasty turn of mind, I might suspect that he was indluging in a personal fantasy, rather than advising parents.
If I were a praying man, I would pray that Goodle held out and not give these degenerates the pleasure.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 06:56:36 [Permalink]
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| That's what happens when the executive branch views the Constituion as "just a godddamn piece of paper." |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 07:18:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
Within the US (I can't comment on elsewhere), I'm a little skeptical of "privacy of information" anyway, in a practical sense- meaning other than what qualifies as "admissible in courts" (the technical sense.) The revelation as of a few years ago that during tax season- when the IRS takes on a huge temporary army of clerical workers- many of these workers, given access to the IRS database, had been pulling up files on their friends, enemies(?), and (humorously) various other people they had an interest in- including (most frequently) Hollywood actors, musicians and other entertainers, sports stars, and other celebrities. That hit the newspapers and the "hole was plugged," but I suspect it's the "tip of the ice berg." Realistically, aside from situations similarly lacking controls and accountibility, I wonder how many ISP (or other) employees- presented with some cash, coersion, or otherwise given incentive- would grant someone access to such information if they could do so with impunity. I suspect quite a few. With the human element involved, it just "comes with the territory."
I thought tax information was open to the public anyway... I'm almost sure it is here in Sweden. |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 07:32:06 [Permalink]
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| The IRS records are keyed by Social Security Number (SSN), whereas the databases were searchable by name and other fields, as is typical. The SSN is an identifier many people wish to keep confidential as access to it is a primary starting point to those seeking to commit identity fraud (an increasingly common crime) among other malicious acts and intrusions of personal privacy. The databases also include detailed records of addresses, income, and employment history, among other information that isn't publicly available. For a variety of reasons, accessibility to such potentially sensitive information needs to be, or at least should be restricted (in the US, anyway... I can't comment on Sweden or elsewhere.) |
Ron White |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2006 : 09:08:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
From the article:Google has refused to comply with the subpoena, issued last year, for a broad range of material from its databases, including a request for 1 million random Web addresses and records of all Google searches from any one-week period... For no other reason than to be a pain in the ass, I would give the Feds everything they ask for, but on paper, single-sided in a 48-point font and double-spaced. In a random order. I'd drive the van-load of "evidence" to them myself, tip my hat and say, "have fun looking through that, folks."
There'd be about 100 pages per thousand pieces of data, and it looks like they're asking for several million. At 500 sheets per ream of paper, it'd be, say, 1,000 reams' worth. About 100 of the typical printer-paper cartons. At the very least, a small army of temporary clerks would be gainfully employed for a couple weeks as they typed all the stuff into a database.
You're gonna need a bigger van. |
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