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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 01/26/2006 : 12:34:25
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First Oprah Winfrey's recommendation turned James Frey's book, A Million Little Pieces, into a best-seller. Then she stubbornly defended this lying author, and his book, even after the lies in his book were exposed. Oprah is now finally coming to grips with her credulity, at least in part:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/26/entertainment/main1240291.shtml
But will Oprah ever fully admit her own responsibility in helping dupe others, even after she knew better, so this lying ex-con could continue to scam the public?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/26/2006 12:42:08
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 14:52:49 [Permalink]
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You know, I hate to say it but the fact this minor unimportant thing was front page news (and continues as I saw it again just last night on either FOX or MSNBC news) doesn't say much for what the American public cares about. I turned the channel.
There are so many real things to be concerned about in the world other than a fiction book sold as non-fiction. I can't believe this matters to anyone except a small circle of friends.
HalfMoon, I've enjoyed your posts and don't mean to belittle any of them, but I'm more curious why you think this is worth bothering over? I don't mean necessarily that you posted it, but why is it such a big deal to people? |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 01/26/2006 14:53:43 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 15:11:26 [Permalink]
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| beskeptical, I totally agree with you. I read the story (before I read your comments) and was thinking to myself, "So he made up a story and wrote it as a memoir instead of a novel. Unethical, sure, but not in any earth-shattering way. What's the big whoop?" |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 16:24:18 [Permalink]
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beskeptigal rampaged:quote:
HalfMoon, I've enjoyed your posts and don't mean to belittle any of them, but I'm more curious why you think this is worth bothering over? I don't mean necessarily that you posted it, but why is it such a big deal to people?
Okay, that answer's fairly easy for me. First, with all the other crap going on, I do accept that this is not nearly one of the great issues of the day.
But thinking as I do of myself as a reader and writer, one of my peeves is any blurring or mislabeling of fiction vs. non-fiction. What the public in general sees to make this issue large in their minds, I can barely speculate about. Though I would hope it's the issue of the ethics of writers, and those who promote them, I don't suppose it is.
Sorry to have bored anyone with the topic. This is just one of my things, so I ranted. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 16:30:04 [Permalink]
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| It may not be the most important thing in the world, but it's a national bestseller, and people were duped. It is a story, even if it's not as important as whether or not Britney's married this week. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 16:38:26 [Permalink]
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Gorgo pontificated:
quote:
It may not be the most important thing in the world, but it's a national bestseller, and people were duped. It is a story, even if it's not as important as whether or not Britney's married this week.
Thank you Gorgo. Once again, someone else expresses my thinking better than I do. Yes, I think that is exactly why I thought the Oprah/Frey issue appropriate for a forum of skeptics to discuss, though as you say, monitoring Britney's hourly marital status tends to eclipse this little issue. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/26/2006 16:40:07 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 16:46:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
But thinking as I do of myself as a reader and writer, one of my peeves is any blurring or mislabeling of fiction vs. non-fiction. What the public in general sees to make this issue large in their minds, I can barely speculate about. Though I would hope it's the issue of the ethics of writers, and those who promote them, I don't suppose it is.
I concur. As one who took writing classes, it is a big deal to misrepresent the content of one's work. Part of the reason for that is that as a writer, all you have is your integrity. Ethical contraints are there to protect both the author and the public, and as a rule most writers adhere to these standards. But when one author is caught being dishonest, it potentially reflects on all of his peers as well. The reaction must be a swift and clear condemnation.
To put it in context, I bet there were people could care less that Hwang Woo-suk faked his stem cell results. I mean, who cares? I can't believe this matters to anyone except a small circle of Korean geneticists...
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 01/26/2006 16:50:08 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 16:57:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
beskeptigal:
There are so many real things to be concerned about in the world other than a fiction book sold as non-fiction.
So, maybe we should ignore books like Communion : A True Story by Whitley Strieber that tells the true story of an alien abduction? Or is it the subject matter we skeptics should be concerned about when regarding a hoax or a scam? Perhaps we should restrict ourselves to well known hoaxes and scams or compile a list of subjects that don't matter to us, even though real people are being fleeced? Just how much should we care about the ethics of writers who make up stories and sell them as factual accounts to make money or create a sensation?
Please let me know what the criteria is for a scam to be of interest to skeptics.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 17:03:07 [Permalink]
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HH horned in with:
quote:
But when one author is caught being dishonest, it potentially reflects on all of his peers as well. Condemnation must be swift and clear.
And writers easily and ethically can lie all they want to, and even make the big bucks doing so. It's called fiction, in which literally (and literarily) anything goes. So if you can write good prose, it's really indefensible to mislabel your work. Assuming Frey's book is written well, he could have published it as fiction, and had no problem with the likes of The Smoking Gun or pissants like me.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 17:17:30 [Permalink]
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Kil sputtered:
quote:
Please let me know what the criteria is for a scam to be of interest to skeptics.
I agree with your arguments.
Answering your particular question, I would agree with those that might say the relative importance of a particular scam maybe should be taken into account.
But, again, that's not always easy to determine before posting a rant.
For instance: Because of my own sense of outrage, I first assumed I had a topic others would be interested in. Then two posters very politely convinced me otherwise. Now the debate seem to be heating up, surprising me yet again. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 17:22:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
beskeptigal:
There are so many real things to be concerned about in the world other than a fiction book sold as non-fiction.
So, maybe we should ignore books like Communion : A True Story by Whitley Strieber that tells the true story of an alien abduction? Or is it the subject matter we skeptics should be concerned about when regarding a hoax or a scam? Perhaps we should restrict ourselves to well known hoaxes and scams or compile a list of subjects that don't matter to us, even though real people are being fleeced? Just how much should we care about the ethics of writers who make up stories and sell them as factual accounts to make money or create a sensation?
Please let me know what the criteria is for a scam to be of interest to skeptics.
Two words: von Däniken.
Enough reason to worry about psychos writing fiction books as non-fiction, even though this Frey's one seems quite less harmful. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 17:58:21 [Permalink]
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| Now, I'd read Communion: A Novel if it got good reviews. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 18:48:36 [Permalink]
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Da filth snarls:
As a sometime freelance writer of non-fiction, I strongly object to these clowns who knowingly represent a load of bullshit as fact. This overflows into loathing when I read of O'Reilly and Limbaugh's verbal offal.
'Cause it's all the same thing, you see. If Frey's work is sold under false representation, then he and his agents are no better than they and their enablers.
I'm with HalfMooner on this one.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 19:01:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
HalfMooner:
Answering your particular question, I would agree with those that might say the relative importance of a particular scam maybe should be taken into account.
Well, actually, I was being sarcastic... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2006 : 19:10:40 [Permalink]
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Kil screeched:
quote:
Well, actually, I was being sarcastic...
Well, in that case, I was, too. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2006 : 01:47:48 [Permalink]
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Beskep reworded her position:
I was trying to balance giving my reaction to the fact this incident was occupying the news for quite a bit more time than the issue required, kind of like Jen and Brad's divorce and baby Branjolena, without coming across as thinking the thread wasn't worthwhile, which is not what I thought.
I failed but allow me to correct that now. The thread was never the thing I was commenting on. I was commenting on the news media's preoccupation with anything cheap and easy to fill up the time with. There is so much real news out there and they are still reporting on the girl missing in Aruba and the guy that went overboard on the cruise ship. With that background, here they were still going on and on about the Oprah book club. The story was worth reporting, but now we are passed that and the news presents this as if it was the biggest scandal since Clinton's BJ. (Well maybe not quite that big.  ) |
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