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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 02/03/2006 : 15:47:15 [Permalink]
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MOVED HERE FROM THE O"REILLY THREAD:
Most of us are saying the same thing but I will put it in my words as well. Maybe one of us will write the same message in a manner Bill will eventually understand.quote:
(Beskep)So gay partnerships don't produce offspring without additional material. Big deal. By that standard the elderly should never remarry when widowed now should they? How unnatural.
(bill) No, it is a very big deal. It empirically demonstrates that homo sex is unnatural in any worldview you care to subscribe to. You must have male and female involved in sexual relations to create a society. Without this the civilization is doomed. Yes you can artificial impregnate a women. But this still requires a man and a women and it is not natural. You CAN NOT artificially impregnate a man with man's sperm nor can impregnate a women with some women sperm. It takes male and female for society to advance, period. This is just the way natural selection, or the creator, which ever you subscribe to, designed it. This can not be disputed. It is a clear fact of reality. If you choose to spin, ignore, or to deny reality then I can no longer help you.
The problem here, Bill, is that you have assigned certain criteria to your personal definition of natural. Not everyone uses the same criteria for their personal definitions of natural. It most certainly isn't the same criteria by which "all worlds view" natural. Let's look at another aspect of 'natural' besides procreation and see how that criteria fares.
Do you enjoy sex? Do you have a natural physical response during sex that stimulates the pleasure center in your brain? I'm assuming you do or at least you are aware that most people naturally experience pleasure during sex.
So we have two natural things here, sex and kids. Both are not required by your definition of natural since you admit heterosexual childless couples are still natural.
Why then is procreation the only thing by which you judge a relationship to be natural?
Are you equally disdainful of fertility treatments because the offspring might very well then need fertility treatments themselves? After all we could have 50 'naturally' infertile heterosexual couples on an island and a fertility clinic that would perpetuate the need for continued 'unnatural' assistance in procreation.
These scenarios including your worn out broken tool examples indicate you have not only chosen a single criteria among several possible criteria by which to judge naturalness, you have also decided to allow arbitrary exceptions that allow you to use that criteria very selectively.
Sex is just as natural as procreation, at least in my definition of natural.
quote:
(bill)Now, when you try to use a tool for a purpose it was not designed for then it is unnatural weather the tool is old or new.
example: Trying to stick a penis in the anal of another is not a smart thing to do male or female. It was not designed to do this nor was the anal designed to expect it. This will cause all kinds of troubles for both parties and is unhealthy behavior which produce expected results.
This is a separate issue. An awful lot of people, gay or straight, enjoy an awful lot of different sexual practices. To assume that each and everyone of them that enjoys something other than the missionary position (to admittedly exaggerate the point) is acting in an unnatural way, again is using your personal definition of which criteria by which to judge something as natural.
Is it natural to kiss? Was your tongue intended to mingle with your partner's tongue? Is it natural to use your hand? After all people certainly masturbate worldwide. It seems to me we have a genetic predisposition to masturbate.
You may very well have decided for your personal definition of natural which criteria to include, which exceptions to make and which criteria to exclude. But it is a bit presumptuous of you to think everyone will find your choice of criteria and exceptions as logical. I happen to find your criteria by which you determine something to be natural or unnatural to be quite arbitrary.
quote:
(bill) Well it is law that the defendant be given representation and this is where the PD comes in. It is not law that the ACLU, a private firm, pick up a defense case where they will provide sanctuary for those whose seek man/boy sex.
Well the ACLU certainly wasn't breaking the law when they chose to assist in a case they determined had broader implications of free speech. No one forced that public defender to take that job.
It's the law that evidence can not be used in court if not properly obtained even if it means a child murderer goes free. The law protects people from a potentially abusive police force.
Again, you are selectively applying criteria by which to condemn the ACLU.
quote:
(Beskep) nor do I find your response to my examples of innocent persons accused of child rape.
(bill) Why is this relevant to the ACLU defending the rights, therefor defending them, of man/boy sex sympathizers?
Try innocent until proved guilty and a right to a fair trial.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 16:06:07 [Permalink]
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To paraphrase Aldous Huxley, the most "unnatural" sexual perversion is chastity. I wonder if Bill is against those unnatural abstinence only programs they keep trying to cram into schools?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/03/2006 20:42:50 |
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Jason Barker
Skeptic Friend
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 20:21:05 [Permalink]
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| Bill is yet another person who thinks that the justice system should work as a legalized lynch mob, infalmmed with his own personal passions. |
Homer: He thinks he's so big, with all his money and wealth. But there's one thing he can't buy with his money.
Marge:What's that?
Homer:........a dinosaur. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 21:25:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
This is a an answer to [url="http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?
Explain how this is not a massive ad-hominem against the rest of the members. You're judging everyone on the basis that two of the members of NAMBLA are convicted criminals?
You find all them guilty by association.
quote:
Wrong! I don't blame nambla members for the murders. I blame nambla memebers of being sick freaks who want to legalize man/boy sex. Why would you want to legalize something you have never tried? How many non pot smokers are running around trying to get weed legalized? All the pro pot people are users or at least the majority. If think the nambla gang are just people that think about but do not act on their fetish then wake up jr.
NAMBLA is a web-site whose members think that a certain law should be repealed.
quote:
man/boy sex
It is the constitutional right of it's members to express their opinion, and promote their ideas with their privacy protected. If a couple of the members break this law does not automatically mean that all of the members breaks the law.
quote:
The memebers are promoting the legalizing of man/boy sex! Are you going to be so nieve here as to say that out of the 1000's of nambla supporters that man/boy sex does not take place in a horid amount of times? As if once is not bad enough
I'm a member of a web-site*[1] in Sweden that promote the repealing of another certain law. It is my constitutional right to express my opinion in that forum without having my rights violated. Some of the members have broken that law, and got busted.
Am I a scumbag?
quote:
For pulling a wheelie on your mini bike? No.
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Place 50 homosexual men and 50 homosexual women on the island, and you will have offspring.
quote:
Through the natural way to have sex, man and women. It does not matter if the man and women are homo, if they have sex togather the act itself is natural and will produce offspring 
]
Because the drive to procreate is different from the sexual preference.
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But only one sexual preferance will procreate
quote:
No mater how you want to spin it reality dictates that this is an unnatural practice.
Having sex with yourself will not give any offspring either so, by your reasoning, masturbation is also an unnatural practise. (And if you try to convince me it's something you do not practise at least every once in a while, I won't believe you. And in order not to force you to lie about it, I don't expect you to answer to this). quote:
I am shocked you would ask such a question! I have never done that in my whole life! Well ok, maybe just once, but that is all! 
Edited to add:
*[1] Oh I almost forgot...
The web-forum in Sweden I was referring to was www.sporthoj.com a site for people who love sports- and super-bikes. The law we want repealed is the one that regulates speed limits for bikes, and prohibit us from making wheelies. While there are members from the forum who are guilty of speeding and wheeling, not all members are outlaws. Even if some people think we are a menace to society.  quote:
So Dr.? Be honest here. Have you ever broke the speed limit? Just one time? Maybe one little bitty wheelie when the police were not around? And yet you think the nambla gang are all a bunch of bench warmers and never get in the game. Shame on you for turning a blind eye to the obvious
Edited again, this time for clarification.
[/quote] |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 22:28:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Why would you want to legalize something you have never tried? How many non pot smokers are running around trying to get weed legalized? All the pro pot people are users or at least the majority.
LOL |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 03:59:42 [Permalink]
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Bill, you should thank the inspiration for whatever myth system that you follow for their existence, and support the ACLU with all of your rescources. After all, due largly to their efforts, some of the world's most obnoxious scumbags are perfectly free to harass and insult an entire segment of the world's population as well as the memory of a citizen that they are not, and have never been, fit to clean accidental dogshit from her shoes. quote:
Adding insult to injury, Westboro Baptist Church, led by anti-gay extremist Fred Phelps, is planning a protest at Coretta Scott King's funeral at New Birth Missionary Baptist Church on Tuesday, February 7 at 12 noon.
WBC said “for more than 10 years that by endorsing the homosexual agenda she was brining down the wrath of God upon herself, her family and the black civil rights movement. She is an ingrate-unthankful and unholy.”
Ironically King's funeral will take place at mega church pastor Bishop Eddie Long's New Birth Baptist Missionary Church. Long is an outspoken critic of gays and led a march to Dr. King's grave denouncing gay rights in 2004 with King's youngest daughter Bernice.
The flyer put forth by these degenerates can be viewed here (pdf file).
And thanks to the ACLU, I am perfectly free to call them and their foul ilk "obnoxious scumbags," isn't that grand?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Jason Barker
Skeptic Friend
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 05:49:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Why would you want to legalize something you have never tried? How many non pot smokers are running around trying to get weed legalized? All the pro pot people are users or at least the majority.
I'm a non pot smoker trying to get it legalized. So go cry and cry over how mean I am to your flower like sensibilities. |
Homer: He thinks he's so big, with all his money and wealth. But there's one thing he can't buy with his money.
Marge:What's that?
Homer:........a dinosaur. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 06:08:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Barker
quote:
Why would you want to legalize something you have never tried? How many non pot smokers are running around trying to get weed legalized? All the pro pot people are users or at least the majority.
I'm a non pot smoker trying to get it legalized. So go cry and cry over how mean I am to your flower like sensibilities.
I just loved the logic in his statement. He states why would you want to legalize something you don't do, then goes on to say that there are people who are want to legalize it who don't smoke. He contradicts himself (yet again). And I'm very sure he doesn't realize it either.
Bill, Legalize It, Don't Criticize It.
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 06:44:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Barker
quote:
Why would you want to legalize something you have never tried? How many non pot smokers are running around trying to get weed legalized? All the pro pot people are users or at least the majority.
I'm a non pot smoker trying to get it legalized. So go cry and cry over how mean I am to your flower like sensibilities.
Make that two. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Jason Barker
Skeptic Friend
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 07:12:00 [Permalink]
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I know a number of people in favor of legalization.
I don't know any pot smokers. |
Homer: He thinks he's so big, with all his money and wealth. But there's one thing he can't buy with his money.
Marge:What's that?
Homer:........a dinosaur. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 09:05:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
[quote]And thanks to the ACLU, I am perfectly free to call them and their foul ilk "obnoxious scumbags," isn't that grand?
I would call them the same thing and then some. This is one small church from ths sticks. The more people pay attention to them the more they feed off of it. A reaction is what they want. Don't pay attention to them and hoepfully they will fade to a minascule.
You have to see the humor in them. They are a bunch of clowns who speak for themselves alone.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 09:22:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Barker
quote:
I know a number of people in favor of legalization.
I don't know any pot smokers.
So you think out of all the people who want to leagize pot zero smoke it? No offence, but your insane. Of coarse some smoke it. In fact Jason, the majority are smokers. Do you really think that out of the 1000's of nambla memebers that zero play in the game? Grow up and face the facts jr. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 09:33:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
So you think out of all the people who want to leagize pot zero smoke it? No offence, but your insane. Of coarse some smoke it. In fact Jason, the majority are smokers. Do you really think that out of the 1000's of nambla memebers that zero play in the game? Grow up and face the facts jr.
Holy smokes...Bill you absolutely did not get what Jason said. How in the world did you interpret that out of what he said?!?!?
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 02/04/2006 09:34:24 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 09:54:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Barker
quote:
[quote]He states why would you want to legalize something you don't do,
Let me try to clear this up since you are having so much truoble following along. The majority of those who favor pot to be legal smoke it. Maybe not all, but the majority. One active nambla member is cause to investagete the group. To invesagte does not imply guilt. But if you have a data base on who supports the act maybe when they do strike it will be that much easier to nab them. I under stand that the ACLU will come in and say they violated the rights of the pevs by just knowing who they are, but I would say the goverment has a right to "investagate" those who have probable cause and supporting illegal activity such such as man/boy sex or man/girl sex or the leaglizing of it is enough to "investagate" by keeping a track on who supports it.
If a group of muslims in the USA have a website with 1000's of memebers who want to make terrorism a legal part of the politic process and a way to make your self heard I don't have problem with the gov. looking into who these people are, and keeping and eye them to see what they are up to. In fact I demand it. AS soon as they blow a bridge up everyone will be yelling at the gov. because these people have been shouting their message for years and gov. failed to stop an attack. Even though on the flip[ side we tied the FBI,CIA hands behinf their back and make it easy for the terrorist to go about their bussness. IMO it is a grave conern when we have to walk such a fine line of keeping the gov. in check while at the same time expect them to keep us safe from the nut job terrorist who use the limited reasch of gov. to it's full advantage. The nut job terrorist play by no rules. I understand that if we do not keep an eye on gov. and make them accountable to the people that they without fail will abuse power. I also understand their people in this world who want to harm our country and they operate in stealth. More then just the jihadist. China, Russia, to start with. We can't turn our back on them for a second. And the ol cloak and dagger game roles on under neath the nose of us all.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Jason Barker
Skeptic Friend
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 10:24:32 [Permalink]
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Now you try to draw comparisons to terrorists. You know how to argue, Bill. Know how to argue as in, not know how to argue at all.
If the ACLU is wrong in what they claim, then a court will find it so, assuming its fair, impartial, etc.
At the heart of your lack of an argument is nothing more than your lynch mob hardon, which fills your little heady weady with confused, blurry ideas that if a group is evil enough in your eyes, then they should be treateded with a different legal standard on the basis of your own passionate indignation. |
Homer: He thinks he's so big, with all his money and wealth. But there's one thing he can't buy with his money.
Marge:What's that?
Homer:........a dinosaur. |
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