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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 02/04/2006 : 14:21:45 [Permalink]
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| Wow! You mean with this thing, pasta can actually be cooked, at HOME, and only using hot water? What will they think of next? |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 14:40:18 [Permalink]
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As if my little kitchen wasn't cluttered enough -- Ron Popil's gonna have your ass for this thread, Ricky! 
I nominate electric knives. They don't work nearly as well as good, sharp knives from Chicago Cutlery (in my book, the best), and you have a stupid cord to get tangled up in whilst you're cutting. And due to the bulk the motor, the handle is cumbersome.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 17:39:06 [Permalink]
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Fine article, Kil. Nice to see you persisted to the point of actually finding a legal action taken on a potential health threat associated with claims made for the "Miracle Thaw." That extra research turned a story about exposing a silly but apparently harmless gimmick into something more serious.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/04/2006 19:35:43 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 19:34:16 [Permalink]
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| Thanks!!! |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 22:23:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
Feel free to post any others that you may know of.
I rarely find any gadgets that are of no use. Best place to find tools for my work is in the kitchen and auto section of stores. And I don't cook nor fix cars.
Don't you people have any Imagination ? |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 13:07:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Fine article, Kil. Nice to see you persisted to the point of actually finding a legal action taken on a potential health threat associated with claims made for the "Miracle Thaw." That extra research turned a story about exposing a silly but apparently harmless gimmick into something more serious.
Be careful about the generalizations made that thawing food a room temperature is risking bacterial growth as well. That's only true if you cook your steak too rare, cook it in the microwave (and don't get it hot enough in the middle), or thaw something you aren't going to cook. The heat from proper cooking destroys the bacteria and the toxins they might have produced.
I get very annoyed at the frequent admonishments for people to thaw the annual turkey in the fridge lest the bacteria grow on/in it. Well, one of the main bacterial hazards from poultry is salmonella and that comes from the poultry farm, not your kitchen thawing practices. If you don't cook the turkey properly, you risk both. If you cook it properly, you risk neither (provided you also don't contaminate something like the cutting board and expose yourself to the bacteria elsewhere).
Food poisoning 101:
Pathogens that contaminate the food before you buy it.
Most common are E-coli, salmonella, shigella, and occasionally hepatitis A
Bacteria, usually staphylococci that grow on the food in room temperature and create toxin byproducts that affect you when you eat them.
This is true "food poisoning". You actually do not get an infection and it isn't passed on to anyone who didn't directly consume the food. 24 hour after you eat, you hurl your guts out for another 24 hours and are usually OK then.
Most room temperature foods grow some staph, but not all staph produce toxins, leading some people to think careless food handling is safe since it didn't hurt them last time, big mistake.
Pathogens that contaminate food after you cook it before you eat it.
Hepatitis A is most often reported, but actually a group of viruses called Norovirus, Norwalk like virus, or small round viruses (all referring to the same thing) account for the vast majority of 'hurling' diseases that are spread as after cooking food contaminants. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/05/2006 13:11:27 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 13:13:07 [Permalink]
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Salad shooters didn't seem to stay on the market long. And wasn't there some stupid lettuce dryer? |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2006 : 13:30:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
beskeptigal:
I get very annoyed at the frequent admonishments for people to thaw the annual turkey in the fridge lest the bacteria grow on/in it. Well, one of the main bacterial hazards from poultry is salmonella and that comes from the poultry farm, not your kitchen thawing practices. If you don't cook the turkey properly, you risk both. If you cook it properly, you risk neither (provided you also don't contaminate something like the cutting board and expose yourself to the bacteria elsewhere).
Of course you are right that proper cooking will destroy salmonella. That said, I would still recommend thawing a Turkey in the fridge to slow the bacteria build up. That will somewhat mitigate the problem of uneven cooking and even the amount of bacteria deposited on your counter top when getting the bird ready for the oven.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 03:54:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
beskeptigal, thawing foods at room temperature increases the amount of bacteria. The more bacteria there is, the more chance for you to get food poisoning, if some parts of the meat aren't cooked enough.
Why risk it?
Well if you prefer rolling the dice of lowered bacterial load to the sure bet of proper cooking, maybe. But that's really dumb.
Especially with poultry of any kind. Here's the deal, with meat, you have to worry about pathogens. While dose does matter depending on the virulence, it doesn't take much more for a few organisms to grow than for a lot of organisms to grow. Kill them all or take your chances.
With toxins, dose would matter. Except you already have to worry about the pathogens.
AFTER you cook the food, that's when you don't want to leave it out for the staph to grow. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 03:59:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
...
Of course you are right that proper cooking will destroy salmonella. That said, I would still recommend thawing a Turkey in the fridge to slow the bacteria build up. That will somewhat mitigate the problem of uneven cooking and even the amount of bacteria deposited on your counter top when getting the bird ready for the oven.
No one believes me. [Hurumph]
Counter top contamination is a big hazard. As are sponges, another of my pet peeves. You cannot disinfect a sponge very easily.
But again, if your turkey is unevenly cooked and not thoroughly cooked in some sections, that's not safe under any circumstances.
So what you both are saying is if you're not going to cook the meat properly then don't thaw it at room temperature. To that I say, the thawing is not the problem. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 10:14:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
beskeptigal:
So what you both are saying is if you're not going to cook the meat properly then don't thaw it at room temperature. To that I say, the thawing is not the problem.
Proper cooking is important. That said, not a single government agency recommends thawing meat at room temperature. In fact, I couldn't find anything on safe food handling that recommends that thawing meat and poultry at room temperature is a safe practice.
I understand that people do thaw meat at room temperature and probably, most often, don't get sick. Or, they sometimes don't realize that the slight case of diarrhea they got later had anything to do with how the meat was thawed.
My question to you would be, if the FTC, the FDA, and the USDA are unanimous on safe thawing practices, why risk countertop thawing? There are quick and safe ways to thaw meat that, according to them, involve much less risk.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/foodalrt.htm
quote:
FTC:
At issue is the proper storage of perishable foods such as meat, poultry, and fish. Harmful bacteria can grow on foods held at temperatures between 40?F and 140?F — a danger zone that's above refrigeration and below cooking or holding temperatures — and this in turn can lead to food-borne illness. Use of some products like food thawing trays and thermo-electric coolers may involve leaving food at these unsafe temperatures for significant amounts of time.
http://www.foodsafety.gov/~fsg/f01chill.html
quote:
USDA and FDA:
• Avoid keeping foods in the Danger Zone—the unsafe temperatures between 40 °F and 140 °F.
• Don't defrost food in hot water.
• Don't thaw food on the counter. Food that's left out at room temperature longer than 2 hours or 1 hour if the temperature is above 90 °F, is not within a safe temperature range and may not be safe to eat.
http://lancaster.unl.edu/food/ftsep03.htm
quote:
Univeristy of Nebraska: An online newsletter about food, nutrition & food safety for consumers:
Question 1: Is it safe to refreeze raw meat and poultry that has thawed?
Answer: The U. S. Dept. of Agriculture (USDA) advises, "Meat and poultry defrosted in the refrigerator may be refrozen before or after cooking. If thawed by other methods, cook before refreezing." <Basics for Handling Food Safely, April 2003 at www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/pubs/facts_basics.pdf>
(DO NOT thaw meat at room temperature, such as on the kitchen counter.)
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Big_Thaw/index.asp
quote:
The Big Thaw: Safe Defrosting Methods for Consumers USDA:
Foods should never be thawed or even stored on the counter, or defrosted in hot water. Food left above 40 °F (unrefrigerated) is not at a safe temperature.
Even though the center of the package may still be frozen as it thaws on the counter, the outer layer of the food is in the "Danger Zone," between 40 and 140 °F – at temperatures where bacteria multiply rapidly.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2006 : 13:56:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted bu beskeptigal
Be careful about the generalizations made that thawing food a room temperature is risking bacterial growth as well. That's only true if you cook your steak too rare, cook it in the microwave (and don't get it hot enough in the middle), or thaw something you aren't going to cook. The heat from proper cooking destroys the bacteria and the toxins they might have produced.
IMO, there is no such thing as cooking a steak too rare. Better alive than cremated.
Proper cooking will NOT always destroy toxins. You mentioned Staphylococci yourself later in your post. While cooking will destroy the bacterium, it's toxin is heat-stable and may persist (at least regarding S. aureus). |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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