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 American Antigravity: science, scam, or cranks?
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2006 :  16:11:25  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
I'm hoping someone with far more physics understanding than I have will look into this link and report back. Me, I'm floating suspended between being totally baffled by the site, and being suspicious of it representing another slick scam:

http://www.americanantigravity.com/index.php


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/17/2006 16:14:09

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2006 :  16:31:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
BTW, the video on the American Antigravity site that shows the "Lifter 3 Red" flight might be more impressive if the little "vehicle" didn't behave just like it had fishing lines attached to each of its three corners. I think I even caught a glimpse of one of the strings at the beginning of the video, despite the very low video quality:

http://www.americanantigravity.com/video/Lifter3-Red-May2005.wmv


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/17/2006 20:01:21
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2006 :  06:07:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
What a joke, looks really high tech there. I was just waiting for someones moms to walk through the frame in the background holding a laundry basket.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2006 :  23:55:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Well, I just saw an episode of Mythbusters in which they built a smaller version of what's shown in the video. It does, indeed, fly, but it's due to the fact that the thing is basically an Ionic Breeze turned on its side.

A fine wire (too fine to be seen in the video) strung between the sticks with a large electrical charge ionizes air, which is attracted to the big aluminum-foil parts, which causes enough of a downward thrust of air to lift the contraption. With their small one, they measured a downward wind of over one mile per hour. The Mythbusters crew showed that it simply didn't work when placed in a vacuum, meaning that air is required for it to fly, no different than any airplane.

So, it's no more an antigravity device than anything else that flies through air.

(The fishing line, Half, I believe is to hold the thing down rather than hold it up.)

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2006 :  00:49:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
Saw the same one Dave - that was a cool gravity meter they used!

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2006 :  01:25:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
That's so ridiculous. The guy's picture flashed in as if he was some serious scientist, no way.

Ionic breezes don't have any breeze, Dave. Consumer Reports backs up that obvious common sense fact with an actual review. And the courts agreed when Sharper Image tried to sue CR for libel.

The thing looks like either they toss it up like a paper airplane or a fan is underneath. Of course I did miss the Mythbuster episode on it so I'll take your word for it there is some static electricity or whatever involved.





Edited by - beskeptigal on 12/10/2006 01:26:47
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2006 :  05:14:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

Well, I just saw an episode of Mythbusters in which they built a smaller version of what's shown in the video. It does, indeed, fly, but it's due to the fact that the thing is basically an Ionic Breeze turned on its side.

A fine wire (too fine to be seen in the video) strung between the sticks with a large electrical charge ionizes air, which is attracted to the big aluminum-foil parts, which causes enough of a downward thrust of air to lift the contraption. With their small one, they measured a downward wind of over one mile per hour. The Mythbusters crew showed that it simply didn't work when placed in a vacuum, meaning that air is required for it to fly, no different than any airplane.

So, it's no more an antigravity device than anything else that flies through air.

(The fishing line, Half, I believe is to hold the thing down rather than hold it up.)

Yeah, saw that episode, too. An old idea, actually, getting wind to blow by using high voltages.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2006 :  05:16:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

That's so ridiculous. The guy's picture flashed in as if he was some serious scientist, no way.

Ionic breezes don't have any breeze, Dave. Consumer Reports backs up that obvious common sense fact with an actual review. And the courts agreed when Sharper Image tried to sue CR for libel.

The thing looks like either they toss it up like a paper airplane or a fan is underneath. Of course I did miss the Mythbuster episode on it so I'll take your word for it there is some static electricity or whatever involved.







Well, it's real after all. But not exactly practical, and it sure ain't "antigravity."


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 12/10/2006 05:38:10
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend

313 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2006 :  06:07:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send woolytoad a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Ionic breezes don't have any breeze, Dave. Consumer Reports backs up that obvious common sense fact with an actual review. And the courts agreed when Sharper Image tried to sue CR for libel.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_drive

Ion drives basically work like jet engines except instead of burning something explosive, we ionise some gas, and use magnets to eject it. i.e. it's a conservation of momentum device.

The law suit was about a review that said that the Ionic Breeze didn't purify air and Sharper Image suing the reviewers.

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2006 :  17:00:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by woolytoad

quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Ionic breezes don't have any breeze, Dave. Consumer Reports backs up that obvious common sense fact with an actual review. And the courts agreed when Sharper Image tried to sue CR for libel.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_drive

Ion drives basically work like jet engines except instead of burning something explosive, we ionise some gas, and use magnets to eject it. i.e. it's a conservation of momentum device.

The law suit was about a review that said that the Ionic Breeze didn't purify air and Sharper Image suing the reviewers.



Thanks for the information, woolytoad. I'm glad to learn about the court results in the Ionic Breeze case. I myself have the Honeywell Environizer. One thing I think it does, that neither CU nor the court considered, is dispel the odor of cigarette smoke. But I agree that it (and probably the Ionic Breeze) is clearly inferior to a HEPA filter for particle removal. But it does work to a degree, judging from the rapid buildup of a layer of brown tar on the electrostatic grid. As a smoker, I leave my Environizer on at all times, just to make my home smell better. But I use a HEPA filter, too. For Sharper Image or Honeywell to sell their devices as air filters is just wrong. They are way too inefficient at that. Instead, they are expensive air fresheners.

I think the ion drive you linked to is essentially a rocket, whereas the static electric "antigravity" device is essentially a very low-grade ramjet. An Ion drive would only work in vacuum, but the flyer, as MythBusters showed, only works in in air. No magnets in the little foil flyer, just static repulsion of a stream of partially ionized air. This device is probably more a cheap air freshener than an antigravity device.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2006 :  18:35:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

Well, I just saw an episode of Mythbusters in which they built a smaller version of what's shown in the video. It does, indeed, fly, but it's due to the fact that the thing is basically an Ionic Breeze turned on its side.

A fine wire (too fine to be seen in the video) strung between the sticks with a large electrical charge ionizes air, which is attracted to the big aluminum-foil parts, which causes enough of a downward thrust of air to lift the contraption. With their small one, they measured a downward wind of over one mile per hour. The Mythbusters crew showed that it simply didn't work when placed in a vacuum, meaning that air is required for it to fly, no different than any airplane.

So, it's no more an antigravity device than anything else that flies through air.

(The fishing line, Half, I believe is to hold the thing down rather than hold it up.)



Saw that episode, too.

Loved how they busted it by placing it in a vacuum chamber in which it failed to achieve any lift at all. The further readings from it pushing a 1.5 mph (2kmh) wind. So it was a thrusting body instead of an anti-gravity machine.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 12/11/2006 18:36:13
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