Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Politics
 Iran
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2006 :  01:39:54  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11724558/

Does anyone besides me see the pretty obvious no-brainer here?

Iran, so you want some nuclear power plants? Hey, don't you guys sit on the second largest oil reserve on the planet?

Lets talk!

We will build you 50 nuclear reactors, the kind that can't meltdown and don't use weapons grade plutonium for fuel. We'll train your people how to operate them, how to manage them, and we'll handle the waste disposal. We'll sell you the fuel to run the damn things at production cost, and maybe even set you up with a facility that can refine the specific fuel to run these type of reactors.

You give us preferential access to your oil reserve.



But no... once again we have Cheney, Bolton, and Rummy all talkin shit and threatening military action... and we know that Iran is, literally, years away from having any weapons grade fuel, say nothing of an actual weapon.

Where are the threats to N. Korea, who we know for a FACT already has weapons grade plutonium?


Not only is this stupid, it is an abject failure of foreign policy. Even a redneck whiteboy like me knows that Iran has many young secular people who don't care for their current regime or the theocratic rulers. But, like the USA, they have a strong sense of nationalism. You bomb them, you unite them all against us.

Yeah, their president is bug-fucking crazy.... but so is ours.

This is one of the things that is so totally frightening about the Bush admin. Their complete and total cluelessness when it comes to any type of policy. They only know how to get elected, they have no idea how to govern or how to engage in foreign diplomacy.

I can only hope that the November elections swing widely in favor of democratic and independent candidates.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2006 :  02:41:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
It seems we were building some of those nuclear power plants for Iran when the Shaw was in power. They had even more oil then.

WA Post article
quote:
Ford's team endorsed Iranian plans to build a massive nuclear energy industry, but also worked hard to complete a multibillion-dollar deal that would have given Tehran control of large quantities of plutonium and enriched uranium -- the two pathways to a nuclear bomb. Either can be shaped into the core of a nuclear warhead, and obtaining one or the other is generally considered the most significant obstacle to would-be weapons builders.

Iran, a U.S. ally then, had deep pockets and close ties to Washington. U.S. companies, including Westinghouse and General Electric, scrambled to do business there.

"I don't think the issue of proliferation came up," Henry A. Kissinger, who was Ford's secretary of state, said in an interview for this article.

Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2006 :  09:27:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
It seems we were building some of those nuclear power plants for Iran when the Shaw was in power. They had even more oil then.



Yeah, to bad the killed him.

But there is very little reason to not hook them up with the no-meltdown plants. They don't use fuel that can be used for weapons.

Instead we have these assholes playing the tired old bully game. Threats and insults.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2006 :  09:41:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

quote:
It seems we were building some of those nuclear power plants for Iran when the Shaw was in power. They had even more oil then.



Yeah, to bad the killed him.


The Shah wasn't murdered, Dude. He was over here for medical treatment and was deposed in absentia. The Shah later died from complications of the medical condition he was victim of.

quote:

But there is very little reason to not hook them up with the no-meltdown plants. They don't use fuel that can be used for weapons.



I can't see a problem with cash and carry hightened containment/safer non-breeding reactors.

quote:

Instead we have these assholes playing the tired old bully game. Threats and insults.





The Bush administration seems to be bent on making Iran the next Cuba. The only reason the US doesn't do business with Cuba is the compensation for siezed property issue. Everyone else does business with them, why shouldn't we?

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2006 :  10:18:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Val said:
quote:
The Shah wasn't murdered, Dude. He was over here for medical treatment and was deposed in absentia. The Shah later died from complications of the medical condition he was victim of.



Doh! Didn't they assassinate some ruler around that time? maybe I'm thinking Anwar Sadat or something.


heh, don't know why I was thinking they assassinated the Shah.

Early morning posting, or something.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2006 :  11:58:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

heh, don't know why I was thinking they assassinated the Shah.


Don't feel too bad, Dude. I have the same false memory. Maybe Kil can fix us.

Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
Go to Top of Page

THoR
Skeptic Friend

USA
151 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2006 :  12:33:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit THoR's Homepage Send THoR a Private Message
Iran needs to have a catastrophic nuclear (neucular if you're GWB) "accident" that leaves their research facilities glowing in the dark for ..... say 50K years.

It CAN be arranged.

I would procrastinate but I never seem to get around to it.
Go to Top of Page

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2006 :  14:59:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

quote:
It seems we were building some of those nuclear power plants for Iran when the Shaw was in power. They had even more oil then.



Yeah, to bad the killed him.

But there is very little reason to not hook them up with the no-meltdown plants. They don't use fuel that can be used for weapons.

Instead we have these assholes playing the tired old bully game. Threats and insults.



I wasn't sure what your no brainer was there. Now I am. My post is less relevant though not completely irrelevant.
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2006 :  16:07:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
I could be wrong here -- memory gets hazy sometimes, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but didn't the Shah die in France after being asked by the Reagan administration to leave this country?

I seem to recall commenting at the time that we tended to be a less than reliable friend, as it was us that put him in power in the first place.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26020 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2006 :  21:28:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

I could be wrong here -- memory gets hazy sometimes, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but didn't the Shah die in France after being asked by the Reagan administration to leave this country?

I seem to recall commenting at the time that we tended to be a less than reliable friend, as it was us that put him in power in the first place.
Here you go, filthy:
The exiled monarch had become unpopular in much of the world, especially in the liberal West, ironically his original backers and those who had most to lose from his downfall. He travelled from country to country in his second exile seeking what he hoped would be a temporary residence. First he went to Egypt, and got an invitation and warm welcoming from president Anwar el-Sadat. He later lived in Morocco, the Bahamas, and Mexico. But his non-Hodgkin's lymphoma began to grow worse, and required immediate and sophisticated treatment. Reluctantly, President Jimmy Carter allowed the Shah to make a brief stopover in the United States to undergo medical treatment. The compromise was extremely unpopular with the revolutionary movement, which were against the United States' years of support of the Shah's rule, and demanded his return to Iran to face a show trial and execution. This resulted in the capture of a number of American diplomats, military personnel and intelligence officers in what became known as the Iran hostage crisis. Once the Shah's course of treatment had finished, the American government, eager to avoid further controversy, pressed the former monarch to leave the country. He left the United States and lived for a short time in Panama. Finally he went back to Egypt where he passed away on July 27, 1980.

Wikipedia
France doesn't seem to be in there. Neither does Reagan.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.2 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000