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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  08:46:18  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
Years ago a guy on Ohio State U's campus handed me a flyer explaining how the existence of the banana proved that God (as Intelligent Designer) existed. Last night my hubby came apon this video (with Kirk Cameron) that uses the exact same idiotic argument: http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2722260

After I got that flyer, I told my cousin (who was also in his 20's) about it, and then explained how it was so stupid because domesticated bananas were breed from wild bananas like Ensete ventricosum which is a smaller, harder, more bitter fruit with large seeds.


In fact, bananas cannot even reproduce in the wild on their own anymore because we've breed their seeds away and made more through grafting techniques, and because of that, bananas are frequently in danger of going extinct because of genetic uniformity.

Anyway, after I told my cousin all this info - which surprised him greatly - he exclaimed "Martha, they should teach this stuff in schools. It's a great argument for evolution!"

Yeah.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com


Edited by - marfknox on 04/27/2006 08:50:11

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  08:58:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
There's a lot of stuff they SHOULD teach in schools...

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  09:01:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Interesting stuff. Thanks.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  12:38:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
This is in another thread somewhere. But seeing it again reminded me of something along the same lines. Bananas are one of the first genetically modified foods. I believe they are hybrids, in fact, even though they originated ~8,000 years ago give or take a few.

My comment on the other thread was that if that guy talking had stuck that banana in his mouth I would have concluded it was pornography in disguise and they made the film as a joke.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 04/27/2006 12:41:09
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  16:28:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
The video certainly sold me on bananas, and reminds me I haven't had any of those marvelous fruit for a long time. But I've seen and even eaten the natural kind of "God-designed" bananas Marfknox mentions. When I was a kid, my grandmother had them growing in her San Diego backyard. Not very sweet, in fact rather starchy, and full of seeds. I'm sure glad the early cultivators were better designers than God, and finished His job correctly after he gave up!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  20:21:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

This is in another thread somewhere. But seeing it again reminded me of something along the same lines. Bananas are one of the first genetically modified foods. I believe they are hybrids, in fact, even though they originated ~8,000 years ago give or take a few.

My comment on the other thread was that if that guy talking had stuck that banana in his mouth I would have concluded it was pornography in disguise and they made the film as a joke.

Here is the original thread. I searched forever in the Creationism folder to find it with no luck. But with a little work, I figured out that it was in the Humor folder-- where it belongs!
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dv82matt
SFN Regular

760 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  20:53:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dv82matt a Private Message
The video wouldn't work for me. I take it that it's something about bananas being a delicious, peelable treat proves design? Jeeze now that I think about it I'm glad it didn't work as I probably couldn't stand to watch it anyway.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  21:01:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dv82matt
I take it that it's something about bananas being a delicious, peelable treat proves design?
Yup. They even call the banana "the atheist's nightmare."

quote:
Jeeze now that I think about it I'm glad it didn't work as I probably couldn't stand to watch it anyway.

Trust me, your blood pressure's much better off. I never could make it through the complete episode. In one section they take a chimp to a fancy restaurant, where it promply begins to throw food and wreck the place. Supposedly our superior table manners proves "we didn't come from monkeys."


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/27/2006 21:04:52
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dv82matt
SFN Regular

760 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2006 :  21:26:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dv82matt a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Yup. They even call the banana "the atheist's nightmare."

What a riot. Although, I did have this awful dream involving plantains, you don't think there's a connection do you?
quote:
Trust me, your blood pressure's much better off. I never could make it through the complete episode. In one section they take a chimp to a fancy restaurant, where it promply begins to throw food and wreck the place. Supposedly our superior table manners proves "we didn't come from monkeys."
Sounds like the kind of thing where you can actually feel yourself getting dumber as you watch it. Yeah I'm definitly not sorry to have missed it.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2006 :  08:42:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
So late last night, while flipping channels and getting ready to crash, I came across our friends Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort (is that a real name?) on Trinity Broadcasting (that's TBN to you). Turns out, that video discussed above wasn't a one-shot deal. In fact, it's a regular series! It's all part of Cameron's "Way of the Master" ministries. I haven't had a chance to explore, but I soon will. Indeed, I encourage all of you to, as well. It should be fun!
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2006 :  00:39:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dv82matt

The video wouldn't work for me. I take it that it's something about bananas being a delicious, peelable treat proves design? Jeeze now that I think about it I'm glad it didn't work as I probably couldn't stand to watch it anyway.

It's kinky. The guy shows you in detail how his hand fits around the banana exactly while the other guy watches in glee. Like I said, if he would have put it in his mouth I'd of sworn it was intended to be porn.

Maybe if it's from TBN that explains it. They are all latent queers and perverts. Look how many of those religious fame seekers end up in some sex scandal. We had our own variety, Pastor Bob. He was the head of the very large Evangelical Overlake Church. He got busted masturbating in a public bathroom in Florida by an undercover cop who was there to bust men for the anonymous gay sex that was going on there. ... Me think he protests too much or however the saying goes.
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2006 :  05:02:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
This is just plain embarrassing. It is no secret that I believe God craeted everything, but I am beginning to think that ID proponents are doing a diservice to God and to science. I think that ID comes from christians that can not handle that it looks like modern science contradicts the bible. Instead of making a new science to "prove" that the bible is correct scientifically, christians should simply do the work of Jesus, helping widows and children and such. I look at the money being spent on ID and all I can think of is how that money could be spent to really help others and do Gods work.

I wonder if these people came accross a homeless man if they would talk to him about how radiocarbon dating is unreliable instead of giving him food and shelter. You do more to prove the existence of God when you give somebody that is thirsty a glass of water, than anything ID has ever done.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2006 :  07:12:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Robb

This is just plain embarrassing. It is no secret that I believe God craeted everything, but I am beginning to think that ID proponents are doing a diservice to God and to science.
That's an understatement. At the least, I would think that a good, old-fashioned Christian would consider ID to be an invention of the Deceiver. After all, Dembski (for example) on the one hand claims that ID is "the Logos of the Gospel of John rewritten in the language of information theory," and on the other hand claims that ID has nothing at all to do with religion. Clearly, both claims cannot be true.

The fact is that ID forces its own proponents to lie about their self-imposed Christian (mostly) mission to school boards, legislators, and even Federal Judges. OR they're lying to Christian groups (from whom they want support) about their mission. And they know exactly what they're doing, since ID is a carefully crafted political movement, so excuses that they're just confused or suffering from cognitive dissonance just won't fly.

While some theologians throughout history have made the argument that lying for God is okay if it brings non-believers into the flock, were I a Christian I'd be deeply ashamed that the loudest ID proponents claim to follow the same God as I do.
quote:
I think that ID comes from christians that can not handle that it looks like modern science contradicts the bible.
What about you, Robb? Do you consider Genesis to be metaphorical? Or is the evidence of God's Creation written in the very rocks of the Earth itself? Or does it even matter to you?
quote:
Instead of making a new science to "prove" that the bible is correct scientifically, christians should simply do the work of Jesus, helping widows and children and such. I look at the money being spent on ID and all I can think of is how that money could be spent to really help others and do Gods work.
You're a pretty classy guy, Robb.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2006 :  08:25:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
quote:
I think that ID comes from christians that can not handle that it looks like modern science contradicts the bible.
What about you, Robb? Do you consider Genesis to be metaphorical? Or is the evidence of God's Creation written in the very rocks of the Earth itself? Or does it even matter to you?
I do not believe it is metephorical. I believe that the earth was created as written in Genesis 1 AND 2. My main problem is with the age of the earth itself. I don't know if it is 4.6 billion years old but it is clearly more than 6,000 to 10,000 years old.

As for mattering to me, it matters less to me as time goes on. I am of the opinion that scientists can explain the workings of the universe better than I. I will take it on faith that there is an explaination to the contradictions (could there be a reason that God put them in there?). The bible should not be used as a scientific textbook, but as a book that tells the story of a God that loves us and of our salvation from the begining to the end.

In the end, Jesus calles us to do good and tell the gospel to others. He did not say to spend all your time to try to reconcile the bible with science.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2006 :  08:43:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
quote:
I wonder if these people came accross a homeless man if they would talk to him about how radiocarbon dating is unreliable instead of giving him food and shelter.

Amen, oops, I mean I agree!


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2006 :  08:54:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Robb:
As for mattering to me, it matters less to me as time goes on. I am of the opinion that scientists can explain the workings of the universe better than I. I will take it on faith that there is an explaination to the contradictions (could there be a reason that God put them in there?). The bible should not be used as a scientific textbook, but as a book that tells the story of a God that loves us and of our salvation from the begining to the end.

In the end, Jesus calles us to do good and tell the gospel to others. He did not say to spend all your time to try to reconcile the bible with science.

Thank you, Robb. After my debate with John Schroeder, your words are music to my ears…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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