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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2006 :  14:20:48  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
One thing I've seen repeatedly as an interesting subtext in fundie Creationist rants is a seeming hatred for all the creatures of nature other than humankind. "I'm not a monkey!" they shriek louder than any howler monkey. "My ancestors were not bacteria! They didn't come from pond scum!"

This seems odd in at first glance, in that their Bible says that humans are supposed to be the stewards of nature, and their myths also tell of Noah, who was supposed to have saved all animal life from a great flood. Attributed to Solomon are poetic lyrics comparing aspects of women's beauty to the graceful beauty of nature's animals.

But in the context of their futile fight for Biblical inerrancy, the fundie Creationists are quite willing to denigrate most of the Creator's purported creatures. They ignore as though errant any part of the Bible that says nice things about other creatures, because they feel the need to play the "beast card" as a propagandistic bugaboo to scare their followers away from scientific thinking. In the U.S., we hear our fundie Dear Leader decry the creation of horrible "chimeras" by scientists, as though the Island of Doctor Moreau were at hand.

Thus this bunch of mad fanatics are terrible stewards of the earth. Thus Jerry Falwell rejected a move by other evangelical leaders to work against global warming. Who needs nature, when the Rapture is just around the corner?

The fundie Creationists throw out the bush-baby along with the pond water.

My little eight-pound dog is sitting on my lap now. She is loyal, loving and brave. This little Chihuahua once fearlessly charged a huge boar black bear, which had intruded into our yard in Washington. I'm deeply proud that I share an ancestry, however remote, with my dog. I'm not at all proud that I share my ancestry with the fundies.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

dglas
Skeptic Friend

Canada
397 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2006 :  14:38:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dglas a Private Message
You are suggesting that...that...I share a common ancestry with Fundamentalists? You can't prove it! I want to see transitional stages - all of them, dammit! Right now! I won't believe it, and you can't make me, so Nyah!

--------------------------------------------------
- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
--------------------------------------------------
The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
--------------------------------------------------
Edited by - dglas on 05/25/2006 14:40:14
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2006 :  14:48:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
dglas demanded:
quote:
You are suggesting that...that...I share an ancestry with Fundamentalists? You can't prove it! I want to see transitional stages - all of them, dammit! Right now! I won't believe it, and you can't make me, so Nyah!
I'm sorry to have inadvertently offended you. I could show you one transitional stage, but the example is only partially-formed. In the fossil I possess, the transitional rump area is only half-assed. Like "Creation Science."


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/25/2006 14:49:41
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dglas
Skeptic Friend

Canada
397 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2006 :  15:32:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dglas a Private Message
Nope. You've only proved that there are now two missing links - lose ends, if you will.
You can't get from Fundamentalist to me, with a malformed, mutant starfish.

--------------------------------------------------
- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
--------------------------------------------------
The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
--------------------------------------------------
Edited by - dglas on 05/25/2006 15:39:09
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Compassion
New Member

8 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2006 :  19:03:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Compassion a Private Message
Likewise, we came from "nothing" if you believe in the big bang theory.

Mutant starfish? What does that have to do with anything

Are YOU going to heaven? Read the Bible, God's Word, to find out the truth. God is filled with compassion for you, His creation, and will reach out to bring you salvation. He sent his son, Christ Jesus, as a substitute for your sins. Accept Christ into your heart once and for all to be saved. God's deliverance from death for you is here!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2006 :  19:15:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
"Compassion" alleged:
quote:
Likewise, we came from "nothing" if you believe in the big bang theory.
Gotcha! And your God came from where? Hm-mm?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2006 :  19:32:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
Compassion wrote:
quote:
Likewise, we came from "nothing" if you believe in the big bang theory.
Huh? My mother accepts the big bang theory, and she's a practicing Christian. You are comfused Compassion; you seem to think that supporting what science tells us about the natural world equates supporting an atheistic philosophical worldview. If one is a theist who believes in the big bang, then one believes that the big bang was part of God's plan. In other words, the only way your statement is true is if we're talking about an atheist who believes in the big bang theory.

Now, see, I am an atheist, so even if the big bang theory isn't true, I think all of the universe came from nothing. So what?

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2006 :  19:46:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
I'm perfectly satisfied being a hairless ape. Well, actually I still have hair on top of my head and I suppose at my age I should consider myself lucky to have itů

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2006 :  20:59:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
marfknox opinionated:
quote:
Now, see, I am an atheist, so even if the big bang theory isn't true, I think all of the universe came from nothing. So what?
Ah, but if the Big Bang ever goes bust, there's always the Steady State Theory. In a Steady State universe there is no place for a creation or a Creator, either scientific or Biblical, because the universe stretches back and forward infinitely in time. Astronomer Fred Hoyle supported Steady State.

Hoyle proposed that as the universe expands and stars and galaxies age, new matter, either in the form of neutrons or hydrogen, was somehow constantly popping into existence in the empty space created, continually renewing the universe with new stars and galaxies, and keeping its overall density about the same. Needless to say, in recent decades, Hoyle's theory has pretty much been demolished by the Big Bang supporters.




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/25/2006 21:10:00
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2006 :  22:01:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

My little eight-pound dog is sitting on my lap now. She is loyal, loving and brave. This little Chihuahua once fearlessly charged a huge boar black bear, which had intruded into our yard in Washington. I'm deeply proud that I share an ancestry, however remote, with my dog. I'm not at all proud that I share my ancestry with the fundies.


When Robert Louis Stevenson was asked if he thought dogs went to heaven he replied "They will be there long before us."

Mark Twain said "Man is the only animal that blushes or needs to."

It seems that more we learn about animals (Dolphins have names - monkeys make sentences - apes plan ahead etc.) the fuzzier the division between humans and animals becomes. This is bound to make a lot of people uncomfortable.

If there are no dogs in heaven I'm not going there.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2006 :  22:33:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Thank you, G_S. That post made my day. It's an evidenced knowledge of my connection to the continuing saga of life on earth that comforts me in times when I ponder my mortality.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2006 :  05:25:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dglas

Nope. You've only proved that there are now two missing links - lose ends, if you will.
You can't get from Fundamentalist to me, with a malformed, mutant starfish.



Well, there's the Missouri Synod Lutherans which had as a common ancestor the Reformation Lutherans which had as a common ancestor the Roman Catholic Church which had as a common ancestor Judaism which had as a common ancestor the middle eastern nature based religions which had as a common ancestor the ancient belief in "if I don't eat I will die". From this far removed common ancestor, the atheist was decended.


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2006 :  05:52:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

One thing I've seen repeatedly as an interesting subtext in fundie Creationist rants is a seeming hatred for all the creatures of nature other than humankind. "I'm not a monkey!" they shriek louder than any howler monkey. "My ancestors were not bacteria! They didn't come from pond scum!"

This seems odd in at first glance, in that their Bible says that humans are supposed to be the stewards of nature, and their myths also tell of Noah, who was supposed to have saved all animal life from a great flood. Attributed to Solomon are poetic lyrics comparing aspects of women's beauty to the graceful beauty of nature's animals.

But in the context of their futile fight for Biblical inerrancy, the fundie Creationists are quite willing to denigrate most of the Creator's purported creatures. They ignore as though errant any part of the Bible that says nice things about other creatures, because they feel the need to play the "beast card" as a propagandistic bugaboo to scare their followers away from scientific thinking. In the U.S., we hear our fundie Dear Leader decry the creation of horrible "chimeras" by scientists, as though the Island of Doctor Moreau were at hand.

Thus this bunch of mad fanatics are terrible stewards of the earth. Thus Jerry Falwell rejected a move by other evangelical leaders to work against global warming. Who needs nature, when the Rapture is just around the corner?

The fundie Creationists throw out the bush-baby along with the pond water.

My little eight-pound dog is sitting on my lap now. She is loyal, loving and brave. This little Chihuahua once fearlessly charged a huge boar black bear, which had intruded into our yard in Washington. I'm deeply proud that I share an ancestry, however remote, with my dog. I'm not at all proud that I share my ancestry with the fundies.
I agree some christians thnk this way. but most christians I would say respect nature but also see humans above other animals because of Gods relation to us. We were given stewardship of animals and I agree we have not done a good job and shown the proper respect, but I think that goes with everybody on the planet, not just christians.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2006 :  11:13:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Robb put in:
quote:
I agree some christians thnk this way. but most christians I would say respect nature but also see humans above other animals because of Gods relation to us. We were given stewardship of animals and I agree we have not done a good job and shown the proper respect, but I think that goes with everybody on the planet, not just christians.
Thank you for your comments. I was consciously careful not to tar all Christians with the same brush, using the term, "fundie Creationists" throughout. Those, I have noted, take an absolutely reactionary attitude toward non-human (and I could add, non-fundie) life on earth, not simply neglecting their "stewardship," but vocally belittling other life forms. I pointed this out because I've concluded that they attempt to "lesser" life as a tactic used against evolution.

Certainly, I agree, many non-believers are also neglectful of life on earth. (And I've been known to actively curse critters ranging from bears to raccoons, and to outright murder critters from from fleas to rats. But they had it coming.)

I would not agree with moderate Christians who put humanity above other creatures, nor with any concept of stewardship that puts humanity in a superior position in a relationship with nature. Instead, I look to evolution for my cue. All life is on the same plane, because all life has earned its niche through billions of years of hard struggle to survive. I would, however, add that as humans we are justified to behave reasonably to defend our own species when we come into real conflict with other creatures. I do not tread carefully, looking down lest I stamp upon an insect. If we can eradicate a deadly virus, I support doing so. And any raccoon that crosses me is going to get a good cussing.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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dglas
Skeptic Friend

Canada
397 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2006 :  14:10:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dglas a Private Message
Whether humans are "above" other animals is a meaningless point to me.

Humans are, however, the only species in a position to manage (or mismanage)the rest of nature.
We are also the only species in a position to designate nature as "resource" or "environment," with the different connotations these terms carry.

By default the job of steward is ours, whether we want it or not and by necessity, by benefit of "winning" the war against nature. Now that the war is won, it is time to move beyond the war-rhetoric, and the silly little fictions and prejudices that went along with it.

--------------------------------------------------
- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
--------------------------------------------------
The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
--------------------------------------------------
Edited by - dglas on 05/26/2006 14:13:31
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