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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
 Posted - 06/01/2006 : 00:10:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Verlch:
You could bred millions of generations by having more than one line going.
That's like saying your first cousin Jethro (just guessing) who happened to be born on the same day you were is of a different generation than you are Verlch. Your logic is nothing if not entertaining…
Or Your Monkey's Uncle!
You guys haven't explained why the fruit fly didn't Transform when his environment changed.
Why is this?
The scientists stopped because a fruit fly, was always a fruit fly!
Attacking me personally doesn't prove Evolution.
Now if you cannot get something to Mutate on a smaller, simpler level, how are you going to do it on the Humanoid level? Large complex creatures, that cannot survive without a liver, or a kidney working "together" and in "unison."
Just like how the creator of the creature allowed eggs to come from complex creatures, there had to be a beginning for man, in his present form and Genesis answers all those hard questions, in simple format, with less faith, than believing in unobserved phantom physics. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 01:22:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
but I have heard similar arguments for plants which don't offer us any nutritional value, but which confer certain benefits to humans nonetheless. Cotton, tobacco, and marijuana would all be examples. It might have been "evolutionarily advantageous" to please a species capable of dispersing you, all anthropomorphism aside.
In the case of tobacco nicotine is a natural insecticide. It just happens to attach to receptors for a human neurotransmitter (acetocholine) therby getting humans addicted for it. I think this is analogous to spiciness which prevents a plant form being eaten by any animal in it's right mind but makes it attractive us crazy hominids so it works to the benifit of the plant both ways.
In hot climates spices keep you coll by making you perspire more. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 01:26:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Let there be the light bulb, oh I forgot that was invented by man. Good ol' Thomas Edison, Creator of the light bulb.
"Can you hear me Thomas" oh yeah Creator of the telephone.
Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone - damn near everybody knows that. Once again you are full of  as usual. But then a good Creationist never lets the facts get in the way. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 02:30:10 [Permalink]
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verlch informed us:quote:
Let there be the light bulb, oh I forgot that was invented by man. Good ol' Thomas Edison, Creator of the light bulb.
"Can you hear me Thomas" oh yeah Creator of the telephone.
He's right, you know. I worked for the Edison System, starting work there in 1969. It was the largest corporation in the world, with 100,000-odd employees, before it was broken up into the "Baby Edisons."
Sigh.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/01/2006 02:31:07 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 03:14:23 [Permalink]
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Ok verlch, put aside your Bible and your crack pipe, and pay attention:
The fruit fly experiments were/are never intended to change the basic fly; merely it's genetics. This experiment is done in universities throughout the world by aspiring, young biologists and is nothing extraordinary. In university, it is merely an instructor's lesson to his class.
However, in laboratories studying genetics, Drosophila melanogaster is used extensively.
Your memory sucks monkey goobers, by the bye. We've been through this before and you came out of it looking like an ass that time, too. But, ok, if you insist...
Fruit flies are used for these studies due to their very rapid generational turn-over. From egg to breeding adult might take no more than a week, and thus, in a month or two, a lot of genetic tampering experimentation can be done. And, as you will see, there are some other, important features that make them ideal. Biological supply houses sell a genetically altered, wingless version of these flies that is used in the lessons.
Now then, up the text you will see the words "fruit fly experiments" written in a pretty blue color with a line under it. Take your mouse -- not that mouse... Yeesh!  -- and move it on it's pad in such a way that the little pointy thingie on your monitor touches the pretty, blue phrase. If you observe carefully, you will note that the pointy thingie becomes a hand with a pointing finger. With that finger placed on the pretty, blue phrase, press the left side, clicker thingie on the mouse -- yes, you have the right mouse this time -- and all will, again, become clear. quote:
Model organism in genetics
Drosophila melanogaster is the most studied organism in biological research, particularly in genetics and developmental biology. There are several reasons:
It is small and easy to grow in the laboratory
It has a short generation time (about 2 weeks) and high productivity (females can lay 500 eggs in 10 days)
The mature larvae show giant chromosomes in the salivary glands called polytene chromosomes - "puffs" indicate regions of transcription and hence gene activity.
It has only 4 pairs of chromosomes: 3 autosomal, and 1 sex.
Males do not show recombination, facilitating genetic studies.
Genetic transformation techniques have been available since 1987.
Its compact genome was sequenced in 1998.
Charles W. Woodworth is credited with being the first to breed Drosophila in quantity and for suggesting to W. E. Castle that they might be used for genetic research during his time at Harvard University. Beginning in 1910, fruit flies helped Thomas Hunt Morgan accomplish his studies on heredity. "Thomas Hunt Morgan and colleagues extended Mendel's work by describing X-linked inheritance and by showing that genes located on the same chromosome do not show independent assortment. Studies of X-linked traits helped confirm that genes are found on chromosomes, while studies of linked traits led to the first maps showing the locations of genetic loci on chromosomes" (Freman 214). The first maps of Drosophila chromosomes were completed by Alfred Sturtevant.
Now then, having gleaned the article, do you better understand these studies and the fly -- NO, NOT THAT FLY, Jesus H. Christ nailed to the the flagpole  ! It's this one:
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 06/01/2006 03:21:44 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 05:28:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Every time a cell division occurs, we have the potential of a mutation in the copying process. I don't recall the number believed to be copying-error-rate. Last time I think I heard something about one-in-a-billion basepairs.
That means that a proto-hen lays a proto egg, in which a proto-zygote starts to divide.
Early in that division the mutation occurs that makes a fourth of (or an eighth, or a sixteenth) of the cells in the proto-chicken to carry the True Chicken DNA.
At one point or another, the proto-chickens "sex-cell" (that carries the mutation) enters meiosis to become the new True Egg.
Hence the EGG is the first true chicken-egg.
Thus speaketh Dr. Mabuse.
Please tell me if this sounds plausible...
Like all the mutations when they tried to mutate the fruit fly's in millions of generations.
False. Fruit-flies has bever been breeded for millions of generations in order to test the theory of evolution.
Well, he is getting better. Last time he was claiming billions. I was bored and did the math. The amount of time required to breed billions of generations was longer than the existance of Homosapiens. And doing the math here, gives us a span of 77,000 years to breed two million generations of fruit flies. As this transcends the study of science, the written word, optics, and the invention of metalworking in general, something tells me good ole verlch is exaggerating again. Especially since the timeline also extends past his 6,000 year old Creation bit.
quote:
quote:
It was always still a fruit fly, the mutations were naturally weeded out, and it continued to be a fruit fly, much to Dr. Hyde bemusement.
Who is Dr. Hyde? References please...
Combining of the main personas of Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde from the story of the same name. V fancies himself quite the wit. He may be half right.
quote:
quote:
The fact of the matter is, there is exactly no reason to evolve into an egg.
"Reason" has nothing to do with it, how many times do we have to tell you that? In evolutionary biology, there are benefits. Eggs were beneficial for protecting the developing organism.
V operates under the "common sense" rules as most neo-conservatives. You better watch out before he gets all Illuminati on your ass.
quote:
quote:
Unless by design, it serves no purpose in the evolutionary process you guys exault.
Liar.
Good catch. V appears to be making an attempt at ID again.
quote:
quote:
That fact of the matter is, that eggs have existed since time began,
Not according to the Bible. Don't you read the Bible, Verlch?
Hmmmmm. You have a point. I hope that V can explain how eggs existed around the time of "let there be light" or perhaps he was going with the proximity factor of the literal seven days of Creation as expounded by the YEC folks.
Let there be the light bulb, oh I forgot that was invented by man. Good ol' Thomas Edison, Creator of the light bulb.
"Can you hear me Thomas" oh yeah Creator of the telephone.
You could bred millions of generations by having more than one line going. Trying to alter the fruit fly's and change their environment. Using heat, and cold, and genetic mutations. The fact was, that once a fruit fly, always a fruit fly.
BZZZZZTTTTT!!!! Wrong answer. Go to your room and eat a booger.
Evidentially, you are using an unknown usage for the word Generation.
gen·er·a·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jn-rshn)
n.
1) All of the offspring that are at the same stage of descent from a common ancestor: Mother and daughters represent two generations.
2) Biology. A form or stage in the life cycle of an organism: asexual generation of a fern.
3) The average interval of time between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring.
4a) A group of individuals born and living about the same time.
4b) A group of generally contemporaneous individuals regarded as having common cultural or social characteristics and attitudes: “They're the television generation” (Roger Enrico).
5a) A stage or period of sequential technological development and innovation.
5b) A class of objects derived from a preceding class: a new generation of computers.
6) The formation of a line or geometric figure by the movement of a point or line.
7) The act or process of generating; origination, production, or procreation.
To have a breeding community, one needs more than two individuals at the top level. In Biology, the mark of a generation is the average time from birth to breeding age. In fruit flies, that's two weeks.
quote:
You, men of renown, say that we changed based on our environment, to "adapt" to changes, to make us better, as we evolve towards the spirit world, were we are void of this material world taht imprisons us, from Liberty and true Freedom. Not my words by the way!!!
Nope. Not evolving towards the spirit world. E |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 09:04:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
You, men of renown, say that we changed based on our environment, to "adapt" to changes, to make us better, as we evolve towards the spirit world, were we are void of this material world taht imprisons us, from Liberty and true Freedom. Not my words by the way!!!
Whose words are they? They sound like the words of some other creationist, because in terms of describing evolutionary thought, those words are not even wrong. But, Googling for several choice phrases in there turns up absolutely nothing. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 09:45:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
You, men of renown, say that we changed based on our environment, to "adapt" to changes, to make us better, as we evolve towards the spirit world, were we are void of this material world taht imprisons us, from Liberty and true Freedom. Not my words by the way!!!
Whose words are they? They sound like the words of some other creationist, because in terms of describing evolutionary thought, those words are not even wrong. But, Googling for several choice phrases in there turns up absolutely nothing.
Doesn't matter. In fact, if they are not V's words, that is to his credit. The statement is false on so many levels, it is almost gibberish.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Stargirl
Skeptic Friend
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 15:11:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
You, men of renown, say that we changed based on our environment, to "adapt" to changes, to make us better, as we evolve towards the spirit world, were we are void of this material world taht imprisons us, from Liberty and true Freedom. Not my words by the way!!!
That humans will someday evolve into beings composed of pure energy or pure thought is not an unknown theme in works of Science fiction. I know Star Trek TOS and Star Trek TNG both had story lines along this vein.
Perhaps like a recent poster to the BA's Blog who quoted a character from Star Trek to support his view maybe verlch gathers his scientific knowledge from Sci-fi stories as well.
Come to think of it it could explain some of his bizarre ideas about how science works.
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If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him - Voltaire |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 15:29:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
The statement is false on so many levels, it is almost gibberish.
Almost?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 15:57:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
You could bred millions of generations by having more than one line going.
I know this "argument" has already been torn to pieces (and could be done so by any five-year-old), but I just had to make a comment. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Hihi.
Sniff.
Snicker. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 18:13:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Let there be the light bulb, oh I forgot that was invented by man. Good ol' Thomas Edison, Creator of the light bulb.
"Can you hear me Thomas" oh yeah Creator of the telephone.
Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone - damn near everybody knows that. Once again you are full of as usual. But then a good Creationist never lets the facts get in the way.
Who was the man on the other end recieving the call? Wasn't his name Thomas, or Scott? |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 18:18:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Who was the man on the other end recieving the call? Wasn't his name Thomas, or Scott?
What does Thomas Watson have to do with Thomas Edison? Anything besides a common first name? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 18:21:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Who was the man on the other end recieving the call? Wasn't his name Thomas, or Scott?
It was Thomas Watson. But the famous quote is "Mr. Watson, come here-- I want to see you..." |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2006 : 18:32:32 [Permalink]
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See this link
Where is this spirit world we are evolving too????
Come on, man didn't just evolve all these billions of years, out of nothing, to not become a god, did he?
Obviously, you all believe we are evolving, please tell the audience, where we are headed!!!
With no concrete evidence of macro evolution, only hypothesis, and dreams, you have stated, with facts, that evolution holds true. Ok, then where are we headed? Certainly you have all claimed to know that, this is a stop before humans go from apes to gods. Correct me if I missed something Meta physical.
Link reformatted for readability. //Dr. Mabuse |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 06/01/2006 18:53:10 |
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