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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 06/17/2006 : 15:28:17 [Permalink]
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I gotta read that book, Mab!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2006 : 15:38:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
I gotta read that book, Mab!
It's a great read.
But be fairly warned: some of the stuff is weird and hard to digest. Just don't let that discourage you. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2006 : 16:35:55 [Permalink]
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Dr. Mabuse....
I would like to thank you and John before I leave for providing a good, fair and skeptical look at the materials I have presented here. I very much appreciated your input as well as John's input. I did appreicate Dave's input at times as well, but we must be too similar at some level and our ego's seem to get in the way of good and honest dialog. On the other hand, I very much appreciated the fact that you kept a cool head and I appreciate that you and John helped keep things focused on the scientific issues. Thanks. |
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2006 : 16:45:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
You'll find plenty of compelling evidence on my website,
Just not on the pages I read ...
quote:
If you disagree with my assessment, how about explaining that image and be attentive to detail. What is the lighting source for instance? Why are the patterns in the image consistent over the length of the video? Why are these patterns consistent over such a long timeline even though the granuals of the photosphere boil and cycle themselves out of existence in roughly 8 minutes? What is the cause of the CME? What is the effect of the CME on the patterns, and why wouldn't an "equal and opposite reaction" be seen in the patterns of the image?
It's easy to dismiss evidence as less than "compelling" if you never attempt to explain the images in question using gas model theory.
Strangely enough, one of the links I clicked was the "Evidence" one. Basically, you've gone "these pictures show there is a solid surface!" and then some assumptions about why. You don't seem to have actually tackled the current theory point by point and contradicted it. Not very rigourous it seems.
I think you have also missed the most obvious thing. Could a star with that much iron actually function? have you tried modelling it? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2006 : 19:21:27 [Permalink]
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| There was no way for my ego to get in my way, since the eight "Surface of the Sun" threads were entirely about your "theory," your "evidence" and your "logic." I only participated to try to get you to provide the compelling scientific model which might convince me, a layman whose life depends upon no particular solar model, that you are more correct than anyone else. I am disappointed that you failed, 'cause I would have liked to have been able to say, at the end of my life, "yeah, I was there the days the Sun changed." If you can't convince me, after all, then the real solar experts are going to be a very tough sell (they already are, since some of them won't return your emails already). They're just going to leave you and Dr. Manuel behind. I wonder how soon STEREO will launch... |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2006 : 20:42:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
I said to MM:
You said your theories don't violate physical laws. You have stated that the 'missing mass' in the universe is to be found in photons, this would violate relativity, understand?
quote:
MM came back with:
What physical "law" have I violated by observing this moving and flowing "relativistic mass" that carries momentum and moves energy from one area of the universe to another?
quote:
Since MM now was talking about "relativistic mass" and no longer talking about missing mass and gravity from particles with rest mass I said:
Listen, dumb ass, you said that the 'missing mass' in the universe is photons. So are you now stating that photons do not have any rest mass, and that you were wrong?
quote:
I further noted he would say:
I am going to go out on a limb here but my guess is you will not. I suppose you will start babbling on about Birkeland, mass separation, or dark energy.
quote:
Since he knew he was backed into a corner he started whining and then stated the following:
individuals like you that won't even take the time or make the effort to understand the solar model I've presented, including the actual surface temperature in a Birkeland model before "yanking a guess out of thin air",
Unbelievable, what the hell does that have to do with the missing mass in the universe. He actually did change the subject and bring up birkelands solar model. I knew I should have said he would change the subject to coronal loops too that is another of his biggies.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 09:51:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
(they already are, since some of them won't return your emails already).
These are the kinds of pointless comments and insults that you've become famous for Dave. Like who? Name names. I haven't even emailed any of the so called "experts" in months with the exception of Stein (Dr. SOHO)from NASA. He was gratious enough to responde to me within 24 hours even though he is moving on from his duties there and was technically "out of the loop" at that point. The "experts" I've emailed this year have been very kind to me actually.
Who are these "some" individuals you're talking about. Be specific.
When the gas model solar theories are overturned and they ask me about your contribution to the process, I'll tell them that you didn't really have anything useful to add, you just made up and hurled a constant stream of insults my way based on imaginary knowledge you simply didn't even posses. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 10:19:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
When the gas model solar theories are overturned and they ask me about your contribution to the process...
Already accepting that Nobel prize in your head, aren't you, Michael? Dear Lord, you are delusional.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 13:00:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Michael Mozina:
When the gas model solar theories are overturned and they ask me about your contribution to the process, I'll tell them that you didn't really have anything useful to add, you just made up and hurled a constant stream of insults my way based on imaginary knowledge you simply didn't even posses.
Gee Whiz. Do ya think they will really ask? But heck, I guess it pays to be prepared... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 13:34:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
When the gas model solar theories are overturned and they ask me about your contribution to the process, I'll tell them that you didn't really have anything useful to add, you just made up and hurled a constant stream of insults my way based on imaginary knowledge you simply didn't even posses.
When MM says stuff like this, and I see how much time he has put into this drivel, I really start to pity him, but then I realize that in his arrogant, deliusional mind he will always be right no matter what, so there is no need to pity him. He just knows that any day he will be proven right; and he will continue to believe he will be proven right to his dying day.
Oh crap, I'm starting to feel sorry for him again...
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 14:40:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
These are the kinds of pointless comments and insults that you've become famous for Dave.
Talk about a pointless comment and insult.quote:
Like who? Name names. I haven't even emailed any of the so called "experts" in months with the exception of Stein (Dr. SOHO)from NASA. He was gratious enough to responde to me within 24 hours even though he is moving on from his duties there and was technically "out of the loop" at that point. The "experts" I've emailed this year have been very kind to me actually.
Who are these "some" individuals you're talking about. Be specific.
Well, gee, Michael, just at the end of last year, you were complaining that the folks at Lockheed had stopped returning your emails, and you also stated that Dr. Kosovichev wouldn't write back to you anymore. If you want more specifics than that, I'm sure your memory will be sufficient.quote:
When the gas model solar theories are overturned, and they ask me about your contribution to the process...
Well, now you're trying to feed my ego, aren't you? It's going to be so cool that someone is going to ask you about my contribution to your theory.quote:
...I'll tell them that you didn't really have anything useful to add, you just made up and hurled a constant stream of insults my way based on imaginary knowledge you simply didn't even posses.
Oh, so you'll rewrite history, then?I have participated on the Skeptic Friends Network for several months now and I have come to like Dave and Dr. Mabuse a great deal, even if we remain far from agreement at the moment. :) They both however are very good "skeptics", even if Dave is sometimes a bit gruff at times.
- This Blog is for You...
You're a pigheaded lot to be sure, but I have very much appreciated the effort you have all made to understand the materials I've presented and to skeptically review and "poke holes" in the materials I've presented over the past few months. I got exactly the kind of skeptical review I was looking/hoping for, with far greater scientific professionalism than I actually expected to find here.
It has also been a very rewarding change of pace to be able to speak my mind freely without any fear of being "banned" or burned at the stake. Even in our "testy" times, you've never threatened to ban me or censure me for my statements. That is a welcome breath of fresh air and it speaks volumes IMO about your integrity. Overall, I've very happy, and quite pleased with the process that has transpired here.
- Surface of the Sun, Part 8 Or were you just blowing smoke all those (three) months ago? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 15:06:20 [Permalink]
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Understatement alert: "... Dave is sometimes a bit gruff at times."
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 15:20:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, gee, Michael, just at the end of last year, you were complaining that the folks at Lockheed had stopped returning your emails,
In which post did I say that?
quote:
and you also stated that Dr. Kosovichev wouldn't write back to you anymore.
I may have complained about him not responding for a few days, but we've exchanged emails since that time Dave. I haven't emailed him in months however.
quote:
Or were you just blowing smoke all those (three) months ago?
No Dave, I meant what I said. The problem however is the more time I spend talking to you, the more I realize how willing you are to take the "low road" at the drop of a hat. I don't want that juvenile discussion anymore. I'm tired of the juvenile stuff at this point. I've stuck it out here because I respect your scientific knowledge as well as the knowledge of Dr. Mabuse and John and several others along the way. It kept things "interesting". This skeptical review has made me learn quite a bit along the way and allowed me to focus in on the core issues. What is less "interesting" is the way we go from a nice pleasant conversation to the F word or the L word at the drop of a hat, or the moment you're having a bad day. That behavior is getting very old now. |
| Edited by - Michael Mozina on 06/20/2006 15:21:59 |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 15:35:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
When the gas model solar theories are overturned and they ask me about your contribution to the process...
Already accepting that Nobel prize in your head, aren't you, Michael? Dear Lord, you are delusional.
Eh? When did I say that? Oh ya, I forgot. You aren't actually interested in finding "truth". Your game is mainly centered on smearing the individual using any means necessary including strawmen and pure fantasies of your own design.
After a year of debating these ideas now in cyberspace on many different forums, I am in faact confident in a Birkeland solar model, and it's ability to explain direct satellite observations. With that model, I've been able to explain what I see in most every satellite image, whereas gas model theorists the world over can't even seem to get past the very first image on my website. To date, no one on any forum has offered up a comprehensive gas model explanation for that first Lockheed RD image that is even remotely attentive to detail. It's never happened in over a year of such discussions. None of the "experts" seems willing to stick their neck out and demonstrate the usefulness of gas model theory as it relates to explaining that image, not the rigid patterns in the image, the "dust in wind", the cause of the CME, or any of the finer details of the image.
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2006 : 15:45:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by woolytoad
Strangely enough, one of the links I clicked was the "Evidence" one. Basically, you've gone "these pictures show there is a solid surface!" and then some assumptions about why. You don't seem to have actually tackled the current theory point by point and contradicted it. Not very rigourous it seems.
Well, you'll find all the points in the 8 threads you'll find here on this topic. Let me recap a few "problems" with gas model theory.
Gas model theory is based on the concept of little or no mass separation of plasmas when in fact we know with scientific certainty that plasmas tend to mass separate in gravitation and magnetic fields.
Worse yet we already have evidence of mass separation of elements based on the different accepted layers of the photosphere, chromsophere and corona, but on one really explains why they stay "separate" in the first place.
Solar rain demonstrates that heavy things "fall" and sink into the solar atmosphere.
Gas model theory can't explain the stratification subsurface imaged by heliosiesmology techniques at .995R. It's supposed to be an open convection zone. Instead we see that up and down plasma flows stop in this region.
Gas model theory equates photon count with elemental abundances when no evidence suggests that this technique even works on a sun. It certainly doesn't work for a planet.
quote:
I think you have also missed the most obvious thing. Could a star with that much iron actually function? have you tried modelling it?
You'll have to explain what you mean by "function" since a Birkeland solar model is not predictated upon hydrogen fusion as it's only possible heat source. |
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