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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
 Posted - 06/13/2006 : 08:35:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I like the term quack medicine. I'm with HM though in that to me it means the disproven or total woo stuff, not the apparently true definition of promoting an unproven claim. I didn't know that was part of the definition.
Well, it's part of a definition. I forgot the "for profit" part of it, as quoted on the site of the National Council Against Health Fraud. As you know, and I mentioned, the popular conception of quackery involves conscious fraud, but I have no qualms about lumping those practitioners of unproven treatment modalities who really, really believe in what they're doing under the "quack" umbrella.quote:
In the meantime though, these medicines are being used and people want to use them. If the treatments/meds are not harmful, a better alternative isn't being forgone, and they aren't too expensive, then it's hard to justify calling them quackery. Even though technically they would be when the unproved claims are made. We have to keep in mind that people believe there is evidence for these things in the fact that they've been in use so long.
It's no more diffcult to justify calling it quackery than it is to call someone who uses fuel magnetizers "gullible," or someone who invests in a free energy scheme "an idiot." Even if they're doing some "alternative" thing safely and cheaply, it's the uncritical mindset which is what requires education, beskeptigal. Framing it all as quackery may get some to sit up and pay attention.quote:
But I'm still pondering ancient medicine/folk medicine/Eastern medicine, all those seem about the same as alternative medicine. I need something that conveys medicine that is currently being used, and is being used because it was established outside of the evidence based medicine system, but hasn't yet been tested adequately.
Any practitioners of inadequately tested "styles" of healthcare who charge people money are quacks, no matter how old or exotic the "style" is. The framing should be as simple as that. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2006 : 14:03:34 [Permalink]
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Dave, you've thought about this stuff a time or two, haven't you?
(Not exactly on topic, but something that came to memory when you mentioned psoriasis, is this: Back in the 1950's, Gilbert Chassey, our family doctor, once wistfully told my father, who was his good friend, "I envy the dermatologists. Unlike in the practice of a physician and surgeon like myself, their patients never die." "Or ever get well," my dad added, seeing the remainder of the advantage.)
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/13/2006 14:46:58 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2006 : 20:36:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Dave, you've thought about this stuff a time or two, haven't you?
Well, I spent nearly five years as an active participant in the Usenet psoriasis support newsgroup, and according to D. Zivkovic, in 1998 (at least),...alternative medicine is involved to a greater extent in psoriasis than in any other disease. Which only makes sense. Psoriasis is famous for spontaneous remissions, and only about 400 people die every year from complications associated with psoriasis, so trying "alternative" therapies runs rampant among psoriasis patients, and practitioners are more than happy to claim success if it looks like their patients have a few fewer flakes.
And to ice that cake, lots of quacks claim success if their patients don't return to them, assuming that whatever whacky treatment worked and so the patient did not need further care. This, of course, might apply to any disease, but with psoriasis patients, what I saw was plenty of people flitting from one "healer" or "cure" to another every few weeks. Among the least-ethical pracitioners out there, that makes for lots of "victories." Turns my stomach just thinking about it again. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2006 : 00:11:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Don't speak too fast, Zebra. Bloodletting is the standard of care for hemochromatosis.
Dave W, happy birthday and you are exactly right. I thought of hemochromatosis (and erythrocytosis) after posting last night but decided sleep was more pressing than editing. I had George Washington in mind, poor guy. Modern term for the treatment is "therapeutic phlebotomy", probably in part to distance it from the ancient practice of bloodletting.
Even leeches have made their way back into medicine - you've heard about their use around wounds, an evidence-based application - but this study may be of more interest when you get old and creaky, and wonder what treatment to try next.
quote:
Adjectives like "useless," "therapeutically bankrupt" or "dangerous" should be applied to fully-discredited treatments themselves.
Full disclosure, Dave W gets the credit for suggesting the term "useless" in this discussion.
quote:
(Not exactly on topic, but something that came to memory when you mentioned psoriasis, is this: Back in the 1950's, Gilbert Chassey, our family doctor, once wistfully told my father, who was his good friend, "I envy the dermatologists. Unlike in the practice of a physician and surgeon like myself, their patients never die." "Or ever get well," my dad added, seeing the remainder of the advantage.)
HalfMooner's story reminds me of the first encounter I had with an attending dermatologist on my first day of 3rd year medical school clerkships. The doctor told me why he liked dermatology: "None of my patients ever die." I glared at him and said: "Sure they do. You're just not involved in their care by that time." And then I went into primary care medicine. |
I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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