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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13476 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2006 :  11:54:18  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
It's always something
quote:
Wind farm turbine blades are killing a key population of Europe's largest bird of prey, UK wildlife campaigners warn.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project

Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4955 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2006 :  12:20:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
I've heard this problem in general about wind farms. In fact, I recall seeing some show or other on them wherein a person was walking around showing all the bird carcasses.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2006 :  16:06:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Ah, Jeeze! People try to do the right "green" thing, and looks what it gets you. I'll try to come up with a solution, but in the meantime I suggest building poultry processing plants adjacent to the wind farms.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4955 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2006 :  16:28:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Ah, Jeeze! People try to do the right "green" thing, and looks what it gets you. I'll try to come up with a solution, but in the meantime I suggest building poultry processing plants adjacent to the wind farms.



But what does eagle taste like?
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2006 :  16:30:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Okay, okay! My Top Ten ideas thus far:

1. Evolution will create smarter eagles, or a more "advanced" eagle-replacement species, such as some kind of flying lynx.

2. Nerf blades on the wind turbines.

3. Nerf eagles.

4. Holographic "virtual" turbine blades.

5. Holographic eagles.

6. Build the turbines using motor-generators. When IR detectors sense the body heat of an eagle approaching, the turbine rotates toward it, takes power from the grid, and blows the eagle into the next country.

7. Mount electronic turbine detectors on all eagles.

8. What eagles? Claim the turbines were there first.

9. Operate the turbines at night only.

10. Then be prepared for trouble over owl kills.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2006 :  16:40:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

But what does eagle taste like?

It's been a few years since I've hunted them for their meat, but as I recall, the eagles tasted much like chicken, but with a hint of salmon and lemming. Much less of a rotting-carcass flavor than, say, condor.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/23/2006 16:40:52
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9687 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2006 :  17:29:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
Build nuclear plants instead. Or vertical turbine towers, as suggested in Australia(?).

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular

Australia
800 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2006 :  18:58:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit JohnOAS's Homepage Send JohnOAS a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Build nuclear plants instead. Or vertical turbine towers, as suggested in Australia(?).


My copy of Australian Skeptic just arrived yesterday. It's a special on various alternative power issues. I'll hopefully get to read it this weekend sometime.

Australia is certainly in quite a good position to take advantage of nuclear power and the associated industries, and there is indeed some push here to do so. Our politicians however, and the public of course, are just as susceptible to trashy emotional journalism and sensationalism as those of any other country, so I fear it will be a difficult, if not doomed venture.

I can see "A Current Affair" doing a feature on "glow in the dark eagles" any day now...


John's just this guy, you know.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/23/2006 :  19:08:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Here's another article about the wind turbine bird-kill problem. It seems the most bird-deadly wind farm in the world may be fairly near where I live:




A row of Altamont Pass wind turbines is made beautiful by a crimson sunset, but the
windmills have also been deadly for many raptors. Chronicle file photo by Michael Macor

quote:
Bird killings at Altamont Pass
Environmental group files suit against wind turbine companies

- Jane Kay, Chronicle Environment Writer
Tuesday, January 13, 2004

Operators of giant wind turbines in Altamont Pass should be ordered to stop the routine, illegal killing of about 1,000 eagles, hawks and owls every year, an environmental group argues in a lawsuit filed Monday.

The Center for Biological Diversity in Oakland charged a Florida company, FPL Group Inc., and a Danish wind power company, NEG Micon A/S, and other operators with violating the federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act, which makes it illegal to kill migratory birds without permits.

The group's suit, filed in the U.S. District Court in San Francisco, alleges that the companies are breaking the unfair competition law under the California Business and Professions Code.

It's illegal to violate state or federal laws in the course of a business' activities.

The suit also alleges that the wind turbine operators are engaging in an unfair business practice by receiving government subsidies and tax credits that are intended to promote environmentally sound production of energy when in fact the activities are causing harm.

The lawsuit is asking for a jury trial and a judgment that would stop the alleged harmful activity and force the companies to return profits.

The wind turbines were erected in the Altamont Pass starting in the early 1980s. Since then, biologists have recorded thousands of deaths of golden eagles, red-tailed and ferruginous hawks, American kestrels, turkey vultures and great horned, barn and burrowing owls.

The group is filing the suit now because Alameda County is issuing new use permits and the turbine operators are upgrading technology and enlarging the turbines.

Studies show that Altamont Pass has the worst bird-kill problem in the world among wind farms, because the turbines are located in a major migration route for birds of prey in North America that attracts among the highest concentration of golden eagles in the world.

"Altamont has become a death zone for eagles and other magnificent and imperiled birds of prey. Birds come into the pass to hunt and get chopped up by the blades,'' said Jeff Miller, a spokesman for the Center for Biological Diversity.

The group isn't trying to shut the Altamont Pass Wind Resource Area, a state-designated area in Alameda and Contra Costa counties.

Wind power provides a small percentage of the state's total energy needs but is a promising, fast-growing technology, environmental groups say.

The Center for Biological Diversity is asking for several immediate protective measures at the wind farms.

Measures include letting grass grow tall around the wind turbines so raptors can't see their rodent prey; reducing populations of ground squirrels and other rodents; removing turbines from certain canyons and valleys; and clustering the turbines and making the blades more visible to birds.

In Juno Beach, Fla., Steve Stengel, spokesman for FPL Energy, a subsidiary of FPL Group, said his company hadn't yet seen the suit and couldn't comment on it.

The company, which has 42 wind farm projects nationwide, has been working for years on measures to lessen the impact on birds, Stengel said.

FPL generates 220 megawatts from 2,000 turbines, about a third of those in the pass.

"We've been active participants in giving research money. We've installed screens and perch guards for the birds, done tests on painting rotor blades in alternative colors and participated in a rodent control program,'' Stengel said.

When looking at bird deaths per turbine, Altamont Pass doesn't have the worst bird-kill record, he said.

"Clearly we realize there's an issue in the Altamont. That's why we're so active in research activities and mitigation measures," Stengel said. FPL has been talking with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the California Energy Commission for the past 18 months on a set of mitigation measures and expects to have a plan early this year.

Benito Perez, special agent in charge of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's office of law enforcement in Portland, said that every time a migratory bird gets killed at a wind turbine in Altamont Pass, it is a violation of the law.

. . .





Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/23/2006 19:20:28
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  00:04:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Maybe, around the wind farms, set up a system like the ones they use at airports to ensure the runways are clear of birds? But instead of putting the noisemakers on the ground, put them atop poles about the same height as the turbines? Or look at fish hatcheries to see how they keep birds away?

Seems like it shouldn't be to hard, or difficult, or expensive, to keep birds away.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  12:12:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Ah, Jeeze! People try to do the right "green" thing, and looks what it gets you. I'll try to come up with a solution, but in the meantime I suggest building poultry processing plants adjacent to the wind farms.



I like that. Send the dead eagles off to starving people, like in Africa. It'd be hitting two birds with... one blade.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4955 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  12:47:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
I like that. Send the dead eagles off to starving people, like in Africa. It'd be hitting two birds with... one blade.

Groan!
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 06/24/2006 12:48:26
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  13:09:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Someone had to say it.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  13:22:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
I'm going to look further into this. There seems to be a lot of controversy over how dangerous these are to birds. We have lots of wind farms and eagles on the Columbia Gorge here and I have not heard this complaint yet. One would think if it occurred very often we'd have heard of it here in WA State.

Well, this seems to be the problem, "He said most wind farms would not cause any harm to birds but that the Smola wind farm had been badly sited in a place where it put white-tailed eagles at risk.", not the wind farm per se.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 06/24/2006 13:23:59
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  13:45:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

I'm going to look further into this. There seems to be a lot of controversy over how dangerous these are to birds. We have lots of wind farms and eagles on the Columbia Gorge here and I have not heard this complaint yet. One would think if it occurred very often we'd have heard of it here in WA State.

Well, this seems to be the problem, "He said most wind farms would not cause any harm to birds but that the Smola wind farm had been badly sited in a place where it put white-tailed eagles at risk.", not the wind farm per se.

Yes, the siting of the farms, and mitigation of rodents around them, seems to be the key on keeping bird kills, espcially raptor bird kills, down. The Altamont Pass wind farm apparently is sited in a pass that is a major migratory route, and its grassy slopes have many rodents which attract eagles, hawks, and owls. Fixing the bird kill problem in general ought not to be impossible.

Perhaps the introduction of less attractive rodents might help?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/24/2006 13:56:16
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2006 :  14:21:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Maybe the eagles think the windmills are giants?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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