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chewbaca
New Member

5 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  22:27:07  Show Profile Send chewbaca a Private Message
OK, anyone watch this tonight? What did you think? Alex Jones is strange but Bob Bowman seems credible. What about Prof. Jones' claims?

furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2006 :  12:47:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
Welcome to SFN Chewbaca.

I agree with Osama bin Laden that it was a group of terrorists primarily from Saudi Arabia who flew 2 jetliners into the towers, 1 jetliner into the Pentagon and 1 jetliner into a field in Penn.

I did not see the mentioned program though....



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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chewbaca
New Member

5 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2006 :  17:41:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chewbaca a Private Message
Osama who? Where is he any way? It was a very interesting forum. Prof. Steven Jones claims to have eviidance of explosive material taken from the WTC site.
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2006 :  22:20:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
During a recent 911 conspiracy theory thread one of the SFN regulars phoned a demolition company to find out what it would take to bring down such a large buildup. The answer was months of work with lots of people doing very obvious things such as cutting holes in walls.

I don't have time to look for their post. I am hoping they see this and provide a link.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2006 :  22:28:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
I didn't watch it but on the radio talk shows from the second hand info it didn't sound convincing. One of the pro-conspiracy guy's rationale was the 19 guys couldn't have learned to fly well enough to hit the targets in a short time. That's worthless as evidence and not likely true anyway.

It's a shame people are wasting time on this and making themselves less credible when the real issue is lies that led to the war in Iraq and all the other crap in our government right now. Poison pill tactic on the minimum wage increase is the latest attack on the democratic process. The whole way Congress functions has become a sham as far as a democratic process and these fools are chasing elusive butterflies.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/31/2006 22:31:31
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2006 :  23:15:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

One of the pro-conspiracy guy's rationale was the 19 guys couldn't have learned to fly well enough to hit the targets in a short time. That's worthless as evidence and not likely true anyway.


It isn't true. I used to fly sailplanes (gliders) and even did some instructing. Flying a plane in mid air is relatively easy - the hard parts are landing and to a lesser extent taking off (and flying on tow in a glider). They did not have to fly with extended flaps, near stall speed etc. It was just stick and rudder. Colliding with something is easy - just keep it in the same position in the windscreen. That is why mid air collisions happen - an aircraft on a collision course appears motionless (until it is very close) and therefore goes unnoticed.

quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

It's a shame people are wasting time on this and making themselves less credible when the real issue is lies that led to the war in Iraq and all the other crap in our government right now. ... these fools are chasing elusive butterflies.


Exactly - the only question that should be asked regarding 911 is - why were the obvious warnings ignored?

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
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Daniel
New Member

2 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2006 :  13:17:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Daniel a Private Message


http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=truth+and+lies+of+911

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-5948263607579389947&q=terrorstorm

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1519312457137943386&q=loose+change+2

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-6495462761605341661&q=martial+law

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-6517776133137328105&q=911+tyranny
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2006 :  14:13:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel
<a bunch of links snipped>

Welcome to Skeptic Friends Network, Daniel.

What exactly is your argument? I tried to watch some of those videos, but tired of them pretty quickly because of the very poor quality.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2006 :  16:05:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
It isn't true. I used to fly sailplanes (gliders) and even did some instructing. Flying a plane in mid air is relatively easy - the hard parts are landing and to a lesser extent taking off (and flying on tow in a glider). They did not have to fly with extended flaps, near stall speed etc. It was just stick and rudder. Colliding with something is easy - just keep it in the same position in the windscreen. That is why mid air collisions happen - an aircraft on a collision course appears motionless (until it is very close) and therefore goes unnoticed.


I agree - I used to fly single engines for a little while before the price of fuel and rental fees went too high....

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2006 :  19:33:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
Three of those films are by Alex Jones. I watched one of his films when someone posted it on SFN a few months ago and I then posted a whole list of things wrong with it, including that Jones fuses his own speculations with facts and that when he showed memos and other documents that supposedly support his argument he flashes them on the screen but you never see the words or hear direct quotes, but instead just get Jones's narration summarizing what is in the memo/document.

But I digress.

Daniel, if you've watched and understood all those 10 hours of video (keeping in mind that documentaries are far more manipulative than books because of all that can be done with editing, music, and imagery) can't you at least put the arguments into your own words?

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2006 :  20:10:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox

Three of those films are by Alex Jones. I watched one of his films when someone posted it on SFN a few months ago and I then posted a whole list of things wrong with it, including that Jones fuses his own speculations with facts and that when he showed memos and other documents that supposedly support his argument he flashes them on the screen but you never see the words or hear direct quotes, but instead just get Jones's narration summarizing what is in the memo/document.

But I digress.

Daniel, if you've watched and understood all those 10 hours of video (keeping in mind that documentaries are far more manipulative than books because of all that can be done with editing, music, and imagery) can't you at least put the arguments into your own words?

No, Daniel's just another hit-and-run spammer, like Joey and his Mr. Clean "miracle" claim. Such people don't have a dime's worth of personal thought saved up from life. They avoid debate about the beliefs they have been infected with, out of fear of having to cogitate for themselves. They are the Typhoid Marys of Stupid Ideas.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2006 :  20:35:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
During a recent 911 conspiracy theory thread one of the SFN regulars phoned a demolition company to find out what it would take to bring down such a large buildup. The answer was months of work with lots of people doing very obvious things such as cutting holes in walls.



That'd be me, and the thread is the one in this folder named "Anyone for 9/11?" (I think) I carried out an email conversation with the lead planner of the biggest demo company in the US.

You cannot, in a non-obvious way, demolish a building of that scale. It requires a large team of people with specific skill sets doing very obvious things to the building.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Daniel
New Member

2 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  02:04:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Daniel a Private Message
Hi, sorry that it's rubbed so many of you up the wrong way, but the reason I didn't have any text was because I forgot to add my username and password at the top of the page and lost half a page of writing. But anyway I didn't come on here to convert anyone to a movement or to prove I'm right and you are wrong, or to even argue, but simply to add some information about it. I didn't realise posting 4 video links was classed as spamming. Maybe if you took the time to watch them you'd see why I posted them.
Also, point taken about Alex Jones.

quote:

One of the pro-conspiracy guy's rationale was the 19 guys couldn't have learned to fly well enough to hit the targets in a short time.


That isn't really the point people are making, but they have to express their views aimed at having 8 year old children understand, such is the state of the average American adults intellect.
The questions people are asking revolve around the official theory that 19 hijackers, 6 of which are still alive, (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm and
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1558669.stm ) flew 4 aircraft through restricted airspace without any interception by any number of alphabet soup agencies, from the FAA, NORAD, USNORTHCOM, USAF for 90+ minutes, without an explanation.
Some other points if interest are the September 10th 2001 Rumsfeld announcement that $2.3 Trillion of US tax payers money ‘cannot be accounted for'… http://youtube.com/watch?v=gUKJNxdmX6Y . Make of the timing what you will.

Anyway I don't have time to run through everything I've read from mainstream media reports, videos and such like, which was part of the reason I posted those videos, naively thinking that a sceptics forum would watch them then make a judgement.

quote:

What exactly is your argument? I tried to watch some of those videos, but tired of them pretty quickly because of the very poor quality.



If you could overcome the lack of quality (lack of quality in the viewing? Surely, as the quality of the information is all documented and factual on the Michael Rupperts video). The first video (below) is of Professor David Ray Griffin, though I'll point out he has a political motivation to state what he does, as he is a political Federalist (Federalised global government), nevertheless his research is accurate. The second is Michael Rupperts posted again.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6837001821567284154&q=ray+griffin
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=truth+and+lies+of+911


If you can find these books in ebook/torrent form, then there is a lot more information to be had, needless to say I don't know it all and don't claim to, so these will be more informative than anything I could write.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1566565847/sr=8-1/qid=1154508815/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-8554127-7878250?ie=UTF8
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1844370364/sr=8-2/qid=1154508887/ref=pd_ka_2/202-7767189-8473438?ie=UTF8&s=gateway
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0865715408/sr=8-1/qid=1154508925/ref=sr_1_1/103-8554127-7878250?ie=UTF8
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0930852400/sr=1-1/qid=1154508966/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-8554127-7878250?ie=UTF8&s=books

Have a look at this video, and the underlying reasons for 911 and the war on terror become slightly clearer, namely the structure of the United States economy since 1913, which isn't what the founding fathers created or wanted.

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=the+money+masters
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  06:52:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
quote:
Daniel said:
The questions people are asking revolve around the official theory that 19 hijackers, 6 of which are still alive, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

What exactly is your point with this. Is your point is that the identity of some of the hijackers is in question?
As stated in the 2001 article:
quote:
FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on Thursday that the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt.

from the other article:
quote:
Mr Al-Shehri said he has now been interviews by the American authorities, who apologised for the misunderstanding.

Again what is your point?


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  06:58:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
Daniel, posting links to videos that most of the people at SFN have seen before is indeed essentially spaming. It would not be spaming if you would say what you think so that we could have some sort of dialog.
Do you think it was a goverment conspiracy?
A jewish conspiracy?
The masons?
Aliens?



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  02:12:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel

Hi, sorry that it's rubbed so many of you up the wrong way,
It's not so much rubbing us the wrong way, as triggering our critical thinking.
This is after all a place for skeptics, where we enjoy analysing statements of facts in order to evaluate their truth-value.
If it looks to you as if someone is attacking you, try to keep in mind that any criticisms are primarily for extracting and distilling truth out of a statement. We recently had another poster in another subject who were fiercely arguing against a long established paradigm, but unfortunately, he perceived critical analysis of his writings as personal attacks. Even though it was not meant as such. If your gut reaction is that we are attacking you, remember that it's not the reason we're here, but that we just don't accept everything as truth without good evidence.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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