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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2006 :  16:13:08  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
We may just be in bigger trouble than I thought. I was surprised to find the other two branches of Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions had similar "end of days" themes going on right now. From the Red Heifer article on bringing about the end times:
quote:
For thousands of years, prophets have predicted the end of the world. Today, various religious groups, using the latest technology, are trying to hasten it.

Their end game is to speed the promised arrival of a messiah.

For some Christians, this means laying the groundwork for Armageddon. With that goal in mind, megachurch pastors recently met in Inglewood to polish strategies for using global communications and aircraft to transport missionaries to fulfill the Great Commission to make every person on Earth aware of Jesus' message. Doing so, they believe, will bring about the end, perhaps within two decades.

In Iran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has a far different vision.

Ahmadinejad, who is defiantly pursuing a nuclear option, has suggested that the elimination of Israel would herald the return of a ninth-century Muslim cleric known as the Mahdi, the 12th Imam. He hopes to welcome that messiah to Tehran within two years.


Conversely, some Jewish groups in Jerusalem hope to clear the path for their own messiah by rebuilding a temple on a site now occupied by one of Islam's holiest shrines. Artisans have re-created priestly robes of white linen, gem-studded breastplates, silver trumpets and solid-gold menorahs to be used in the Holy Temple along with two 6-ton marble cornerstones for the building's foundation.

(emphasis mine)

Boy if this isn't a frightening scenario of religious extremists and nuclear weapons combined.

Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2006 :  16:30:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message
Yo, Beskeptigal. If the earth and life on it are ever destroyed, it will happen because visionless creatures on this planet (to coin a phrase) bring it on. Collision with a large extra-terrestrial body could happen, and that would, in some folk's minds, be an act of God. Otherwise, look out for the less powerful putz, such as Mahmoud Ahmadinejah, Kim Jong Il or Dick "Go F--k Yourself" Cheney.

It's interesting that Defense Sec'y, Donny Rummy used the term,"Dead Enders" to define the earlier insurgents in Iraq, when, it seems to me, these Armageddon Freaks of whatever religion fall much more into that category.

OY!

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Edited by - Orwellingly Yurz on 08/05/2006 16:38:50
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2006 :  02:30:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Someone pointed out all the war and oil profiteering by Cheney certainly implies he either doesn't believe in the imminence of the rapture or he wants an insurance policy in case. I think it says he's clearly using the religious base in a hypocritical shameless way.
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2006 :  06:38:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message
There is no comparrison between Christian Missionaries spreading the word or a Jewish Temple; and a war-mongering nuclear state who wants to freakin' nuke people.


Joe

The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs.
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tomk80
SFN Regular

Netherlands
1278 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2006 :  07:16:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit tomk80's Homepage Send tomk80 a Private Message
If their motives are the same, and in this case they are, then yes, there is a comparison between Christian Missionaries spreading the word and a war-mongering nuclear state. All of them do it to enhasten the coming of armageddon.

The plans for the rebuilding of the temple are also scary, not because of the rebuilding of it, but because there other buildings there at present that will have to be destroyed, and those other buildings are holy buildings from other religions. Somehow I have a feeling that the muslims will be interested in having a say in the rebuilding of the jewish temple on ground now occupied by their buildings.

When people are performing actions to hasten the end of the world, this is scary, no matter whether those actions are violent or non-violent on the surface. The motivation tells you more than the actions itself.

Tom

`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll-
Edited by - tomk80 on 08/06/2006 07:21:45
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2006 :  10:38:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
If you ever get the desire for visual torture, watch Left Behind. The really scary part is that millions of doofi actually believe the crap in that movie.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2006 :  17:09:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent

There is no comparrison between Christian Missionaries spreading the word or a Jewish Temple; and a war-mongering nuclear state who wants to freakin' nuke people.


Joe

Not if you just take the Red Heifer as if that is all the Christians are up to. But look at how the 'end of days' believers are pushing the Iraq, Iran, Israeli wars and how much influence they have in our current government and then tell me they're harmless.

And BYW, there is a group of Jewish or Zionist extremists that have caused near riots trying to start building that Third Temple on the Arab controlled Dome of the Rock or some such nearby site sacred to Islam.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 08/06/2006 17:11:40
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2006 :  23:44:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent

There is no comparrison between Christian Missionaries spreading the word or a Jewish Temple; and a war-mongering nuclear state who wants to freakin' nuke people.


Joe

Not if you just take the Red Heifer as if that is all the Christians are up to. But look at how the 'end of days' believers are pushing the Iraq, Iran, Israeli wars and how much influence they have in our current government and then tell me they're harmless.

And BYW, there is a group of Jewish or Zionist extremists that have caused near riots trying to start building that Third Temple on the Arab controlled Dome of the Rock or some such nearby site sacred to Islam.



Or look at what happened in India when Hindu extremists demolished a mosque in order to rebuild the Hindu temple that originally stood stood on the site - days of rioting and hundreds dead.

Another danger from the "end of days" crowd is a lack of concern about anything beyond the immediate furture be it global warming or government deficits. Neither of these are a concern to someone who thinks the rapture is immenant. I always wondered why so few American conservatives are upset about the Bush administration racking up deficits while deficit spending has been a major issue with conservatives in Canada. Now I know why - most American conservatives think Jesus will show up before the piper has to be paid.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

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"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2006 :  05:22:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

We may just be in bigger trouble than I thought. I was surprised to find the other two branches of Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions had similar "end of days" themes going on right now. From the Red Heifer article on bringing about the end times:
quote:
For thousands of years, prophets have predicted the end of the world. Today, various religious groups, using the latest technology, are trying to hasten it.

Their end game is to speed the promised arrival of a messiah.

For some Christians, this means laying the groundwork for Armageddon. With that goal in mind, megachurch pastors recently met in Inglewood to polish strategies for using global communications and aircraft to transport missionaries to fulfill the Great Commission to make every person on Earth aware of Jesus' message. Doing so, they believe, will bring about the end, perhaps within two decades.

In Iran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has a far different vision.

Ahmadinejad, who is defiantly pursuing a nuclear option, has suggested that the elimination of Israel would herald the return of a ninth-century Muslim cleric known as the Mahdi, the 12th Imam. He hopes to welcome that messiah to Tehran within two years.


Conversely, some Jewish groups in Jerusalem hope to clear the path for their own messiah by rebuilding a temple on a site now occupied by one of Islam's holiest shrines. Artisans have re-created priestly robes of white linen, gem-studded breastplates, silver trumpets and solid-gold menorahs to be used in the Holy Temple along with two 6-ton marble cornerstones for the building's foundation.

(emphasis mine)

Boy if this isn't a frightening scenario of religious extremists and nuclear weapons combined.



When Khomeni siezed power in 78, the Shiite community look to him to see what he would say about the hidden prophet (a.k.a. the Mahdi). One that was said to emerge every 100 years to bring back True Islam(TM) to it's fundamentals. Khomeni was very careful to not claim that title as his own. 1978 was the Arabic year 1398. He was due in 1400 (1980 Gregorian).

He's almost 30 years late. The religious nuts are getting desperate. They have to deliver a bonafide Mahdi and soon before the rank and file start questioning things.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2006 :  07:12:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
Was Mahdi supposed to be born, or go public, in 1980?

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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2006 :  07:17:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Actally The Mahdi was born in the year 10176 of the O.C. Calendar, sired by the Duke Leto Atredies of Caladan and his Royal Concubine the Bene Gesserit Lady Jessica Harkonnen. Duh.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 08/07/2006 07:19:08
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2006 :  10:32:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Was Mahdi supposed to be born, or go public, in 1980?



Go public. The term bandied about was "emerge to lead the believers back to Islam".

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1880 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2006 :  12:45:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

Boy if this isn't a frightening scenario of religious extremists and nuclear weapons combined.

Frightening indeed, mankind now has the ability to bring about the end of times. And due to the strictures place upon the public media, and even polite conversation, by the religious majority these frightening scenarios will not receive much attention. So, when they are no longer killing just thousands, but millions, will the moderates among them, if they still exist, wonder where God is?

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend

USA
346 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2006 :  13:53:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send leoofno a Private Message
Where does The 100 year cycle come from? Accorhing to Wikipedia:( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi )

"He emerges during the last days of the world from Makkah."

According to the entry, this is believed by both the Sunni and Shi'a factions. He and Jesus kick some serious Antichrist butt, but no mention of a cycle of incarnations. Is the "hidden prophet" something else?

"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2006 :  14:12:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic

Or look at what happened in India when Hindu extremists demolished a mosque in order to rebuild the Hindu temple that originally stood stood on the site - days of rioting and hundreds dead...

Please don't tell me the Hindus have an end time prophecy too.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 08/07/2006 14:13:10
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tomk80
SFN Regular

Netherlands
1278 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2006 :  15:14:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit tomk80's Homepage Send tomk80 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic

Or look at what happened in India when Hindu extremists demolished a mosque in order to rebuild the Hindu temple that originally stood stood on the site - days of rioting and hundreds dead...

Please don't tell me the Hindus have an end time prophecy too.


quote:
The creation and destruction of humanity is cyclic for Hindus, beginning in an age of perfection known as the Krita yuga and digressing through the Kali yuga, also referred to as the age of darkness, during which the apocalyptic figure Kalki will emerge to destroy the wicked and save the righteous in order to restore the world to a state of complete virtue. Following one thousand such cycles from Krita yuga to Kali yuga, the earth itself is destroyed and began anew. Hindus today believe that the world is currently in the Kali yuga and will be coming to an end shortly. Aside from the authoritative religious aspect of this notion, folk religious beliefs exist as well pertaining to such issues as when Kalki will arrive and who he will be.


From http://www.doomsdayguide.org/hindu_prophecy.htm

Tom

`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll-
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