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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 08/27/2006 : 18:28:02 [Permalink]
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Well, I'm not going to fight it, but it's not fine. It's a church. We voted in my Dad's office one year.
There are plenty of places to vote. Libraries, schools, places of business. Why churches? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2006 : 18:33:56 [Permalink]
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| I wonder how the 48% red-voting people would feel about going to vote in a mosque? I somehow doubt a mosque would ever be used, if it were offered. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2006 : 18:34:01 [Permalink]
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Are you involved in the voting process Gorgo? Not to be cliche but are you complaining but aren't volunteering to do the work? I would bet you could be a squeaky wheel and influence which building is used.
You could wear a "separate church and state" tee shirt or something. 
That would be great voting in a mosque. You're right it will not happen any time soon but it's a great idea, Pleco. Except you have to take off your shoes. Do they have any rooms you don't take off your shoes? |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 08/27/2006 18:35:30 |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2006 : 22:07:22 [Permalink]
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In Australia, our elections are always held on weekends, in fact, exclusively on Saturdays if my memory serves me correctly. We set up the schools as voting booths. I've never heard of churches being used, but I guess if they had an open hall free they'd be OK logistically.
It wouldn't bother me personally to vote in a church. I imagine it would mostly be an issue for those with some faith which conflicted seriously in some way with that of the church at which they were to vote. You could always drop a "change your evil ways" or "vote #1 for cthlhu" note into the suggestion box while you're there. 
Still, you guys always have the option of not voting if it's going to cost you eternal suffering, right? Voting is compulsory here, at least to the point where you have to go to the polling booth and have your name marked and collect your ballot papers. After that there's no way for them to check whether or not you've actually voted, but you can be fined if you don't turn up at all. |
John's just this guy, you know. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 02:45:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Are you involved in the voting process Gorgo? Not to be cliche but are you complaining but aren't volunteering to do the work? I would bet you could be a squeaky wheel and influence which building is used.
No. I have no big problem with it, but it is still a separation issue. It's not at the top of my list.
There is no need for it. Every community has a union hall, a legion hall, a company cafeteria, a big house, a school, a library or a field where voting can take place. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 03:01:20 [Permalink]
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In Sweden elections are held on the third Sunday of September (every fourth year). Less than 3 weeks to go.....
With my current residence I vote in a school. For my previous address my voting location was a building owned by the military.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 05:25:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
It seems to me that if we truly have separation of church and state, that this should not be allowed. The fact that we (in America) allow these slight trangressions (like In God We Trust on money, etc) shows that we are hypocrites.
Maybe as an atheist/agnostic it doesn't present a problem, but if you are a muslim? Are you even allowed to step foot on such ground?
My proposal would be to not have any governemnt functions, especially voting, at any religious institution. Have them at public schools, etc. Besides, I think that the day you vote should be a "holiday" so schools would be free to be used. This seems logical to me.
I'm having a bit of a problem understanding the whole seperation issue on this. It's only a possible problem for Jehoviah's Witnesses. Muslims are not supposed to enter Christian churches for religious services. Voting is not a religious service.
The way the law allows such things is that the poling places are set up by the individual precincts and assisted by the towns/municipalities. Where ever they can find a place within that precinct that is physically accessible to all residents and has a public area is fine. If memmory serves, the building owner donates use of the space or gets a nominal amount for use of the space and subsequent cleaning costs. The law required that the poling place be nearby or in the precinct so that those people who lack transportation have the opportunity to vote.
The law does not allow people to interfere with people going to vote. I've not heard any allegations of religious institutions thumping at voters before they get access to the rooms to vote. The last time I even heard of a precinct having a problem with religious evangelism and voting places, the church was not used by the precinct ever again.
Just location of a poling place that gets used at a maximum once per quarter and usually once every two years does not make an entanglement of church and state.
In the several places I have lived, one was in a Catholic Church, one was in a fire station, one was in a community center, and the last one was at a golf course. The only one I had a problem with was at the community center and that was because of electioneering violations by the Republican candidate. (Election signs too close to the door of the poling place) |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 07:07:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Voting is not a religious service.
Well, not yet anyway. A few more neo-con administrations and that will change. 
quote:
The law does not allow people to interfere with people going to vote. I've not heard any allegations of religious institutions thumping at voters before they get access to the rooms to vote. The last time I even heard of a precinct having a problem with religious evangelism and voting places, the church was not used by the precinct ever again.
Oh, I'm not saying that there was ever interference or explicit intimidation. I'm just saying that it has the appearance (to me) of governement and religion holding hands.
quote:
Just location of a poling place that gets used at a maximum once per quarter and usually once every two years does not make an entanglement of church and state.
You say the church gets reimbursesd for the use. Which means my tax money is going to a religious institution. I do not like that at all.
We agree to disagree then.  |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 07:39:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
In the several places I have lived, one was in a Catholic Church, one was in a fire station, one was in a community center, and the last one was at a golf course. The only one I had a problem with was at the community center and that was because of electioneering violations by the Republican candidate. (Election signs too close to the door of the poling place)
These are interesting places to live. Did you live on one of the greens, or did they give you a place inside? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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dglas
Skeptic Friend
Canada
397 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 07:49:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
The only one I had a problem with was at the community center and that was because of electioneering violations by the Republican candidate. (Election signs too close to the door of the poling place)
Why is this a problem?
I dont just mean because it is a violation of some rule or aother. Why was such a rule made such that it can be violated? Why would you have a problem with Republican signs being "too close" to a polling place? |
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- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
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The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 12:46:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Voting is not a religious service.
Well, not yet anyway. A few more neo-con administrations and that will change.
quote:
The law does not allow people to interfere with people going to vote. I've not heard any allegations of religious institutions thumping at voters before they get access to the rooms to vote. The last time I even heard of a precinct having a problem with religious evangelism and voting places, the church was not used by the precinct ever again.
Oh, I'm not saying that there was ever interference or explicit intimidation. I'm just saying that it has the appearance (to me) of governement and religion holding hands.
quote:
Just location of a poling place that gets used at a maximum once per quarter and usually once every two years does not make an entanglement of church and state.
You say the church gets reimbursesd for the use. Which means my tax money is going to a religious institution. I do not like that at all.
We agree to disagree then.
I am not sure if they get re-imbursed at all. I see this as paying the landlord of a building for use of the space. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 12:49:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">In the several places I have lived, one was in a Catholic Church, one was in a fire station, one was in a community center, and the last one was at a golf course. The only one I had a problem with was at the community center and that was because of electioneering violations by the Republican candidate. (Election signs too close to the door of the poling place)
These are interesting places to live. Did you live on one of the greens, or did they give you a place inside?
[/quote]
Note to self: Gorgo is in a very literal mode.
Context would indicate that the polling places were in the locations mentioned, not my living quarters. Next time I will try to specifically define each and every word and context in excruciating detail for you. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 12:54:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dglas
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
The only one I had a problem with was at the community center and that was because of electioneering violations by the Republican candidate. (Election signs too close to the door of the poling place)
Why is this a problem?
I dont just mean because it is a violation of some rule or aother. Why was such a rule made such that it can be violated? Why would you have a problem with Republican signs being "too close" to a polling place?
Electioneering law in my state requires campaign signs not be within 50 feet of a polling place. I would have a problem with any candidates signs violating election law. If they aren't going to obey basic laws, what makes me believe they will obey other laws?
The laws were put in place to prevent last minute intimidation by election officals or campaign workers in close proximity of a poling place.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 13:13:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Note to self: Gorgo is in a very literal mode.
Context would indicate that the polling places were in the locations mentioned, not my living quarters. Next time I will try to specifically define each and every word and context in excruciating detail for you.
You lived in the polling places and were intimidated by Republicans? Wow. Should have invited them to go golfing when you lived on the golf course. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 14:16:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by dglas
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
The only one I had a problem with was at the community center and that was because of electioneering violations by the Republican candidate. (Election signs too close to the door of the poling place)
Why is this a problem?
I dont just mean because it is a violation of some rule or aother. Why was such a rule made such that it can be violated? Why would you have a problem with Republican signs being "too close" to a polling place?
Electioneering law in my state requires campaign signs not be within 50 feet of a polling place. I would have a problem with any candidates signs violating election law. If they aren't going to obey basic laws, what makes me believe they will obey other laws?
The laws were put in place to prevent last minute intimidation by election officals or campaign workers in close proximity of a poling place.
You trust them to obey the laws once elected?
Intimidated by a sign? How about a 30 foot by 60 foot billboard from 50 feet? Or a whole side of a building? Hmmmm...... ideas for my freinds house........
Joe
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The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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