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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
 Posted - 09/01/2006 : 05:23:57
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Anan... what a goat..... Syria to patol the border to stop re-arming of Hezbollah????? The sad part is, he is serious.......
Isreals ending of occupation in Middle East the key to peace..... Again he is serious.........
Oh no, sanctions on Iran..... Iran must be worried sick........
If there is one thing I hold more in contempt then our current state of politics....... It is the UN.........
Peace
Joe
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The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 13:05:07 [Permalink]
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Right.
If there hadn't been a UN, then there wouldn't have been a Jewish state of Israel. There would have been peace because Hamas, Hizbollah, Fatah and other Palestinian rebel-groups wouldn't have had any reason to fight.
The Holocaust was a terrible thing, but I'm beginning to think that the creation of Israel out of a sense of guilt was a terrible mistake. There are other ethnic groups besides Jews who have no land or country either to call their own. The Kurds come to mind first. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 19:10:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Right.
If there hadn't been a UN, then there wouldn't have been a Jewish state of Israel. There would have been peace because Hamas, Hizbollah, Fatah and other Palestinian rebel-groups wouldn't have had any reason to fight.
The Holocaust was a terrible thing, but I'm beginning to think that the creation of Israel out of a sense of guilt was a terrible mistake. There are other ethnic groups besides Jews who have no land or country either to call their own. The Kurds come to mind first.
I am not good at naming fallacies, but that dosen't mean I can't see them. Your arguement is they did a good thing 60 years ago, so they are a good group. Actually, you critisized one of the best thing they did. Allowing the Holocaust was a mistake. The creation of the State of Israel was the closest thing to justice possible.
Reason to fight? Had everyone accepted the UN, there would be peace. Had the UN enforced the mandate, there would be peace, or at least little chance for outbreak of a full scale war.
The UN is good for little else then spening too much money, killing too many trees to write paper that is not much better then the National Enquirer (or your local rag).
The UN is a longer lived League of Nations. It should be joining the Leauge from the same causes that the Leauge died of.
Peace
Joe
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The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 19:47:40 [Permalink]
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The UN was founded in 1945.... So how, exactly, did they allow the holocaust?
You might be able to lay some blame for it at the feet of the League of Nations, or some of the European governments who refused to believe Germany was arming.... But certainly not the UN.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 06:46:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
The UN was founded in 1945.... So how, exactly, did they allow the holocaust?
You might be able to lay some blame for it at the feet of the League of Nations, or some of the European governments who refused to believe Germany was arming.... But certainly not the UN.
I apologize for not making myself clearer, especially on such an important thing as this. I was not laying the blame for the holocaust at the feet of the League or the UN. I lay the blame for that on all parties involved.
I applaud both the Leauge of Nations for the "Jewish Homeland" and the UN for the "jewish State." However, I deplore most of what they have done since. Lots of paper..... No protection......
Here's your state, good luck, don't expect help.... Do what you want, unless we don't want you to do it...... Don't worry about the enemies at the gates, we'll protect you by passing some resolutions... Defence is never offense.... When things look bad, we'll send some troops to protect the border, unless or until another country dosen't want them there because they are intereing with thier plans to anhilate you....
That's just the worthless paper that on the Palestine Question.
It is good you noticed that the League disappeared after the re-arming of Germany. The UN should disappear before the coming radical islamic tide..... Same mindset.... I think Anan proves that by trusting Syria.....
Peace
Joe
edited for worse then normal spelling |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
| Edited by - Original_Intent on 09/02/2006 06:48:43 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 13:09:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Right.
If there hadn't been a UN, then there wouldn't have been a Jewish state of Israel. There would have been peace because Hamas, Hizbollah, Fatah and other Palestinian rebel-groups wouldn't have had any reason to fight.
The Holocaust was a terrible thing, but I'm beginning to think that the creation of Israel out of a sense of guilt was a terrible mistake. There are other ethnic groups besides Jews who have no land or country either to call their own. The Kurds come to mind first.
I am not good at naming fallacies, but that doesn't mean I can't see them. Your argument is they did a good thing 60 years ago, so they are a good group.
I wasn't trying to be funny or ironic.
It was a statement of fact: If UN wasn't, then Israel wouldn't be, and one major obstacle for peace in the Middle East would not exist.
quote:
Actually, you critisized one of the best thing they did.
It is your opinion that it was the best thing they did. I disagree, for reasons already stated.
quote:
The creation of the State of Israel was the closest thing to justice possible.
For the Palestinians who were living in that area, thrown out of their homes and land. UN gave Jews justice at the expense of another group of people.
quote:
Reason to fight? Had everyone accepted the UN, there would be peace. Had the UN enforced the mandate, there would be peace, or at least little chance for outbreak of a full scale war.
USA has blocked many UN resolutions, and has been lagging behind in monetary support for quite some time now. USA is one of the reasons the UN has been crippled, because nations can see that USA only acts in self-interest, and by doing that forcing UN to march to the beat of American drums instead of working for world peace.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 14:21:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Right.
If there hadn't been a UN, then there wouldn't have been a Jewish state of Israel. There would have been peace because Hamas, Hizbollah, Fatah and other Palestinian rebel-groups wouldn't have had any reason to fight.
The Holocaust was a terrible thing, but I'm beginning to think that the creation of Israel out of a sense of guilt was a terrible mistake. There are other ethnic groups besides Jews who have no land or country either to call their own. The Kurds come to mind first.
I am not good at naming fallacies, but that doesn't mean I can't see them. Your argument is they did a good thing 60 years ago, so they are a good group.
I wasn't trying to be funny or ironic.
It was a statement of fact: If UN wasn't, then Israel wouldn't be, and one major obstacle for peace in the Middle East would not exist.
The League of Nations has already set it up for a Jewish Homeland. There is no fact. Just as easily as they were given this, they could have taken it anyway. You cannot see the road not taken.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
The creation of the State of Israel was the closest thing to justice possible.
For the Palestinians who were living in that area, thrown out of their homes and land. UN gave Jews justice at the expense of another group of people.
No the Un gave one part to Israel and another to Palestinians. The Palestinians that so desired moved and founded Jordan. How many problems do we here about from Jordan compared to the other areas in the Middle East? Many Palestinans stayed right in Israel because the Arab nations promised them the land after they anhilated Israel. When the war was over, and many Paestinains tried to flee to these countries, the borders were shut down. Why not, not only are refugees on the other side of the border not a drain on their country, but they are a wonderful tool.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
[quote]Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Reason to fight? Had everyone accepted the UN, there would be peace. Had the UN enforced the mandate, there would be peace, or at least little chance for outbreak of a full scale war.
USA has blocked many UN resolutions, and has been lagging behind in monetary support for quite some time now. USA is one of the reasons the UN has been crippled, because nations can see that USA only acts in self-interest, and by doing that forcing UN to march to the beat of American drums instead of working for world peace.
LOL. I see, the US is what is wrong with the UN beacuase we block resolutions, look out for self-intrest, and don't give away our resources freely to a curropt establishment?
All the nations act in their best intrests. World Peace? What a load. The UN is so interested in world peace they ignore acts of war, terroism, and genocide. I sure don't want them looking out for my best intrests.
We have not been giving enough of our money to someone else to waste? Our beuracracy can waste enough of my money without giving it to the UN to waste for us. I am believing more and more that the US should cease all payments, and instead give a quarter of the amount to The Gates Foundation, and a quarter to Doctors Without Borders. They will squeeze 4 times the use out o the funds, and we can save the other half.
Peace
Joe |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 15:45:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
I am believing more and more that the US should cease all payments, and instead give a quarter of the amount to The Gates Foundation, and a quarter to Doctors Without Borders. They will squeeze 4 times the use out o the funds, and we can save the other half.
Well, the way you are spending money on an illegal war in Iraq, you sure could use the extra cash. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2006 : 16:32:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
I am believing more and more that the US should cease all payments, and instead give a quarter of the amount to The Gates Foundation, and a quarter to Doctors Without Borders. They will squeeze 4 times the use out o the funds, and we can save the other half.
Well, the way you are spending money on an illegal war in Iraq, you sure could use the extra cash.
Yes, the US in Iraq is definitly a UN failure, but it is not defined as illegal here. Poorly planned, badly executed, badly run... Yes...
If the UN was worth the salt provided to it, it would have taken care of Iraq a decade or more ago.
Peace
Joe
Edited to add this P.S.
The war in Iraq should be illegal here. It is a war. Nothing in our Constitution gives Congress the power to authorize military intervention anywhere. It does give them the power to declare war, which they have not.
Bu then there is nothing that permits foreign aid, to the UN or otherwise, in the constitution either. The Constitution clearly defines the roles and limits of the government. |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
| Edited by - Original_Intent on 09/02/2006 19:45:56 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 02:13:00 [Permalink]
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The UN is what we make it.
If it is a failure, then it is only a reflection of our own failure.
Our current administration, obviously, sees the UN as of little value. Just look at the whackadoodle they appointed to be our ambassador there. You don't appoint a minor bureaucrat, who is well known to be a raging asshole, to be our representative to the world... if you respect the organization.
The UN, despite all the bullshit, has very often reached the correct conclusions and called for the proper response to problems that come before it.
The failure lies only in the failure of the member nations to follow through. Almost every nation that participates seems to only give lip service to UN resolutions, and the major players all have the right of veto.
The UN could be an amazing tool for diplomacy and resolution of conflicts without resorting to war. If we wanted it to be.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 06:23:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
The UN is what we make it.
If it is a failure, then it is only a reflection of our own failure.
Our current administration, obviously, sees the UN as of little value. Just look at the whackadoodle they appointed to be our ambassador there. You don't appoint a minor bureaucrat, who is well known to be a raging asshole, to be our representative to the world... if you respect the organization.
The UN, despite all the bullshit, has very often reached the correct conclusions and called for the proper response to problems that come before it.
The failure lies only in the failure of the member nations to follow through. Almost every nation that participates seems to only give lip service to UN resolutions, and the major players all have the right of veto.
The UN could be an amazing tool for diplomacy and resolution of conflicts without resorting to war. If we wanted it to be.
I agree, almost completely.
Peace
Joe |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 13:39:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
The UN is what we make it....
Unfortunately it is what half, give or take depending on your view of Ohio voting fraud, of us make of it. |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 15:34:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
The UN is what we make it....
Unfortunately it is what half, give or take depending on your view of Ohio voting fraud, of us make of it.
Tired, tired, tired........ Vote fraud, vote fraud, vote fraud..... I want to complain about Illinois vote fraud that got Kennedy elected.........
Your response is pretty small-worlded. We could give and give, and look out for everyone else instead of ourselves. The rest of the world is not going to follow suit. Our self-intrests are no the self-intrests of China, or Russia. Annan is still a talking ostrich who will cut his, and everyone elses throat to get a peace that is not a peace.
Peace
Joe |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 23:50:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
I want to complain about Illinois vote fraud that got Kennedy elected
So?
What does vote fraud in the 60's have to do with vote fraud now?
Nobody doubts that there were irregularities in Chicago, dead people casting votes and such, when Kennedy was elected. But it isn't relevent to today.
Do you deny that there was significant voting fraud in Ohio 2004 and FL 200?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 06:00:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
I want to complain about Illinois vote fraud that got Kennedy elected
So?
What does vote fraud in the 60's have to do with vote fraud now?
Nobody doubts that there were irregularities in Chicago, dead people casting votes and such, when Kennedy was elected. But it isn't relevent to today.
Do you deny that there was significant voting fraud in Ohio 2004 and FL 200?
Nope.. You forgot all the dead people voting for Kennedy in Texas, though.......
But that wasn't the point of this thread, and it is tiring to see people try to bring it into every thread..... What the hell does vote fraud have to do with the the mess the UN is.
But since people want to bring vote fraud into it......
It is really tiring seeing people complain about vote fraud giving us someone they don't like, instead of the vote fraud itself. They complain about the stuff that got Bush into office, and not the stuff that goes on on the other side. I find it humerous. It seems to me that what the Kerry and Gore supporters are trying to say is "I am mad because the GOP cheated better then Dems."
It is all relevent. Vote fraud from before the 60's and after is vote fraud. It is not simply the Republicans or the Democrats. And every presedential election is relevent. What if Kennedy wouold have lost?
Peace
Joe |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 20:42:39 [Permalink]
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I was too young to know about the Kennedy vote scandal at the time. But I hope were it the Democrats creating the fraud now, that I would be just as upset. I want free elections by informed people, not a dictatorship that claims to represent me.
If they cheated to get there, chances are they are cheaters. Not good.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 09/04/2006 20:43:56 |
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