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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2006 :  21:49:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
I see now where I was confused. I thought you were claiming the organic matter origin of oil was the wrong theory. You posted as if you were rebutting the link to the site describing the organic basis of oil.


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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2006 :  02:33:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Please someone explain this to me: Was the Swedish oil actually abiotic oil, though little of it? If so, even if economically insignificant, isn't that scientifically interesting?




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2006 :  07:35:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Please someone explain this to me: Was the Swedish oil actually abiotic oil, though little of it? If so, even if economically insignificant, isn't that scientifically interesting?



It probably came from overlying sedimtents that were subsequently scraped off by glaciation. Oil can migrate up or down from it's source rock. It may also have come from underground oil storage created during World War 2 (Sweden was neutral, but did stockpile oil). Any abiotic oil that was created in the mantle would be thermally cracked into lighter components on the way up as it passed through the "gas window". At the gas window depths the temperature is high enough and the pressure low enough to crack the oil.




"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
Edited by - Ghost_Skeptic on 09/10/2006 14:47:32
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2006 :  15:17:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Please someone explain this to me: Was the Swedish oil actually abiotic oil, though little of it? If so, even if economically insignificant, isn't that scientifically interesting?
If you are referring to the oil I'm thinking about, extracted from shale in the 40s and 50s then it's biotic.

Edited to add: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale
Day-break mines in my neighbourhood was for a long time a pox on the landscape, but the last 15-20 years of restoration made the difference. A 100+ meter pile of red ashes finally turned green the last decade. But it's still burning inside, and has scolding hot vents on top. Sometimes you can see the yellow sulfur condense around the vents. Smell like rotten egg on the top of the pile which is now the site for an outdoor art diplay.


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 09/10/2006 15:28:38
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2006 :  15:46:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Please someone explain this to me: Was the Swedish oil actually abiotic oil, though little of it? If so, even if economically insignificant, isn't that scientifically interesting?
If you are referring to the oil I'm thinking about, extracted from shale in the 40s and 50s then it's biotic.


The oil Mooner is referring to was pdocuced from a well in fratured granite in the Siljan Ring in the late 80s.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
Edited by - Ghost_Skeptic on 09/10/2006 18:04:18
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2006 :  16:03:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
Oh, that one...

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2006 :  05:40:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Bill Nye came through for us,

It would take seven Mt. St. Helens exploding every day of the year to equal the amount of CO2 humans produce each year.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2006 :  08:34:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

Bill Nye came through for us,

It would take seven Mt. St. Helens exploding every day of the year to equal the amount of CO2 humans produce each year.

Now THIS is what I was looking for. Can you please cite the source?

-Chaloobi

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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2006 :  10:35:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Yeah it was on the Science Channel's: 100 greatest discoveries, Earth Sciences episode.

I guess I should have said It takes 7 MSHs each day to produce the amount of CO2 produced by humans each day. Always forget to reduce my fractions... I think this figure may correspond to the total CO2 released over the course of many weeks by the mountain...


From Volcano FAQs
quote:
I don't have an exact number. At Mount St Helens the maximum measured emission rate was 2.2X10^7 kg per day. The total amount of gas released during non-eruptive periods from the beginning of July to the end of October was 9.1X10^8 kg . I do not have an estimate for the volume of CO2 released during the Plinian eruptions. As a long-term average, volcanism produces about 5X10^11 kg of CO2 per year; that production, along with oceanic and terrestrial biomass cycling maintained a carbon dioxide reservoir in the atmosphere of about 2.2X10^15 kg. Current fossil fuel and land use practices now introduce about a (net) 17.6X10^12 kg of CO2 into the atmosphere and has resulted in a progressively increasing atmospheric reservoir of 2.69X10^15 kg of CO2. Hence, volcanism produces about 3% of the total CO2 with the other 97% coming from man-made sources. For more detail, see Morse and Mackenzie, 1990, Geochemistry of Sedimentary Carbonates.
Scott Rowland, University of Hawaii Steve Mattox, University of North Dakota

Source of Information:
Harris, D.M., Sato, M., Casadevall, T.J., Rose, Jr., W.I., and Bornhorst, T.J., 1981, Emission rates of CO2 from plume measurements, in Lipman, P.W., and Mullineaux, D.R., (eds.), The 1980 eruptions of Mount St. Helens, Washington, U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1250, p. 3-15.



http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html
says human emmisions are 150x of yearly volcanic activity, sites USGS/UND

The total emmisions released over the course of the eruption seems impossible to find, but the discrepency of the 3%/97% figure and the 1/150th figure I believe stems from the fact that we release much more now than when the 3%/97% number was done.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2006 :  14:40:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Well, BigPapa, though I agree that vulcanism is a fairly minor source of CO2, as compared to human sources, that's still a lot of gas coming from volcanoes, at a time when every little bit hurts. Every one of these volcanoes is worse even than my old clunker of a car. There outta be some kind of accountability here. Maybe permits required, or an environmental impact report, prior to any volcanic event. But, just like the oil industry, these killer mountains seem to get a free pass.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2006 :  04:54:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Well they (volcanos) really have us by the balls on this one, no volcanism/no magnetic field.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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