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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2006 :  08:14:23  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
http://www.current.tv/make/vc2/sot

One of the movies:

One Nation Under Guard
Producer: Lucas Krost

US prisons have become big business, housing 25% of all the people in the world behind bars, the largest prison population on the planet. In a frenzy of criminal justice, we have turned our backs on the founding principles of this nation to produce state and federal prisons at an alarming rate—in the 1990s, opening 1 every 15 days in depressed rural towns and communities. Private correctional companies are entering the industry, appearing on the NY stock exchange, with an eye on the bottom line. Under this prison-industrial complex, we are locking up 1 in 3 young black men in this nation, moving them far from home, and stripping them of the right to vote, the possibility of holding decent jobs and the dignity of supporting themselves and their families. US prisons are holding the strangest of reunions: grandfathers, fathers and sons behind bars. There is no paying of their debt to society, no clean slate. One Nation Under Guard can inspire change by presenting the big picture of a US prison system that values the bottom line more than it does solutions, at enormous cost. Most people are unaware that this is happening. Current TV viewers will begin to see the real need for restorative justice, and will be moved toward supporting and joining those who are working for it. They will begin to demand change to create a prison system that delivers justice for all, not injustice for a marginalized minority.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter




Edited by - Gorgo on 11/11/2006 08:15:14

GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2006 :  13:57:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
Here is an interesting list of statistics about prison populations as they relate to one of the US's miserably failed "War on Something" programs, the War on Drugs. And here is more information from the same source regarding racial statistics related to imprisonment for drug offenses.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2006 :  15:35:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Yes, I've said it before. With the exception of a small part of the prison population, the only reason people are in prison and in jail is income and color.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2006 :  20:26:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Yes, I've said it before. With the exception of a small part of the prison population, the only reason people are in prison and in jail is income and color.



It's all good. The dems are back in control, just in time to save the day. By this time 08 prison over-population, social welfare and world hunger concern will be a thing of the past. It's a new era. The elections were historic. Let the eutopia begin.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

Edited by - Bill scott on 11/16/2006 20:27:31
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25976 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2006 :  20:40:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
No, Bill isn't bitter at all.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2006 :  03:17:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
quote:
The elections were historic. Let the eutopia begin.



I would wager that none of the Democrats will do anything about prison over-population or the costly, wasteful drug war. They'll be big heroes because they'll raise the minimum wage to the point that abject poverty will be a thing to aspire to. They'll be able to do little about global warming, they'll do nothing about the Post WWII efforts to increase world poverty such as the IMF. They'll modify some of the anti-abortion hysteria in the country to the point where only the wealthy can get an abortion. They'll secularize the government to the point where only those who are really loud about their piety can get elected.

Maybe they'll do better. I hope I'm wrong about all of these things. Maybe national health care will improve a little under the Dems, but I'll be surprised. Maybe they won't use the military solely for the purpose of making the rich richer, and the poor poorer, but I wonder if that's ever been the case, and if it's even possible.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2006 :  04:26:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Yes, I've said it before. With the exception of a small part of the prison population, the only reason people are in prison and in jail is income and color.
Yes and it was as wrong then as it is now.

Sure, income and color affect your chances in life and how you fare in the legal system, but to claim that it is "the only reason" is ludicrous.

There is much that needs to be done in the social, legal & penal system both in US and in other countries. Denying personal responsibility is not one of them.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2006 :  05:17:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Look at the statistics. White people commit more drug crimes than those of color. Who is incarcerated? Can you say that there is a reason for most of the people in prison to be there? Look at the recidivism rate.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2006 :  05:48:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Look at the statistics. White people commit more drug crimes than those of color. Who is incarcerated? Can you say that there is a reason for most of the people in prison to be there? Look at the recidivism rate.
The direct reason for people being in prison is that they have been found guilty of crimes. Nearly all of them for crimes that they did commit.

There is much to be done to improve society and thereby reduce crime rates, but you appear to deny that there is any personal responsibility, which is silly.

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2006 :  06:08:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
I didn't say anything about personal responsibility. That has nothing to do with anything here. What I am talking about is societal responsibility. Most are in prison because they are people of color and poor. No other reason. Did they break rules which make no sense? Some did. Would that money that it cost us to find them, arrest them, try them, and put them and keep them in jail and prison be better spent on education and health care and other social services for all? Yes.

What is silly is to imprison them. Who benefits except those who own the companies that run prisons and prison services? No one.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2006 :  11:43:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

No, Bill isn't bitter at all.




Bitter? Get real. I condemned Lott, for Half, just to show him I condone bad behavior on both sides of the isle when he questioned my objectiveness. I must say, for a skeptical forum, I am amazed to see how many ideology driven democratic apologist post on this forum. To act as if one side has dabbled in corruption, while the other side is the party for the people is ignorant. Both sides are full of corruption and greed.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2006 :  11:47:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

quote:
The elections were historic. Let the eutopia begin.



I would wager that none of the Democrats will do anything about prison over-population or the costly, wasteful drug war. They'll be big heroes because they'll raise the minimum wage to the point that abject poverty will be a thing to aspire to. They'll be able to do little about global warming, they'll do nothing about the Post WWII efforts to increase world poverty such as the IMF. They'll modify some of the anti-abortion hysteria in the country to the point where only the wealthy can get an abortion. They'll secularize the government to the point where only those who are really loud about their piety can get elected.

Maybe they'll do better. I hope I'm wrong about all of these things. Maybe national health care will improve a little under the Dems, but I'll be surprised. Maybe they won't use the military solely for the purpose of making the rich richer, and the poor poorer, but I wonder if that's ever been the case, and if it's even possible.



Well, there goes the post-election etupia all were enjoying.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25976 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2006 :  12:08:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott

Bitter? Get real.
I was real, you posted a sarcastic parody of alleged Democrat goals, rather than a reasoned response to anything on-topic.
quote:
I condemned Lott, for Half, just to show him I condone bad behavior on both sides of the isle when he questioned my objectiveness.
Yet here we are again, with you posting examples of your bias.
quote:
I must say, for a skeptical forum, I am amazed to see how many ideology driven democratic apologist post on this forum.
Name one.
quote:
To act as if one side has dabbled in corruption, while the other side is the party for the people is ignorant.
Yes, who has done so here?
quote:
Both sides are full of corruption and greed.
Sure, and so that's irrelevant, and your comment about a utopia absurd.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2006 :  12:42:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
quote:
Well, there goes the post-election etupia all were enjoying.



I tend to agree. I'll say it again, most Democrats, like Virginia's Webb, are hardly left-wingers. And the so-called "anti-war" Democratic candidates simply think they can kill and impoverish "Third-World" citizens in a more orderly fashion than the thugs in charge. They're not anti-war at all.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Go to Top of Page

Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2006 :  13:23:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.



quote:
I was real, you posted a sarcastic parody of alleged Democrat goals, rather than a reasoned response to anything on-topic.


So, by default, you have concluded that all sarcasm comes from bitterness? And besides, I said the dems would have the prison population under control by 08, which prison pop. was the topic.




quote:
Yet here we are again, with you posting examples of your bias.


Oh, your just bitter.




quote:
quote:
I must say, for a skeptical forum, I am amazed to see how many ideology driven democratic apologist post on this forum.


Name one.


Sure, halfmooner. I blast dems for more of the same when NP backs ethically challenged Rep. Murtha for speaker. HM can't post fast enough when the dems vote in Hoyer instead declaring, No more of the same and then goes on about how the dems learned their lesson on coruption from the last vote. In his haste to redeem the dems he dismisses the fact that they voted in an ethically challenged Rep. in place of the ethically challenged Rep., in fact giving the American tax payers more of the same.





quote:
quote:
Both sides are full of corruption and greed.


Sure, and so that's irrelevant, and your comment about a utopia absurd.


There is no reason to be bitter here, Dave.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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ergo123
BANNED

USA
810 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2006 :  02:11:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ergo123 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott

Bitter? Get real.
I was real, you posted a sarcastic parody of alleged Democrat goals, rather than a reasoned response to anything on-topic.
quote:
I condemned Lott, for Half, just to show him I condone bad behavior on both sides of the isle when he questioned my objectiveness.
Yet here we are again, with you posting examples of your bias.
quote:
I must say, for a skeptical forum, I am amazed to see how many ideology driven democratic apologist post on this forum.
Name one.
quote:
To act as if one side has dabbled in corruption, while the other side is the party for the people is ignorant.
Yes, who has done so here?
quote:
Both sides are full of corruption and greed.
Sure, and so that's irrelevant, and your comment about a utopia absurd.



Davie--PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC!!!!

No witty quotes. I think for myself.
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