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 Pagan widows sue for pentacles on mates' stones
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2006 :  13:22:19  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Fair's fair, I think:
quote:
Soldiers' widows sue for pagan symbols on headstones
POSTED: 1:26 p.m. EST, November 13, 2006

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The widows of two combat veterans sued the government Monday for not allowing Wiccan symbols on their husbands' military headstones.

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs allows military families to choose any of 38 authorized headstone images. The list includes commonly recognized symbols for Christianity, Buddhism, Islam and Judaism, as well as those for smaller religions such as Sufism Reoriented, Eckiankar and the Japanese faith Seicho-No-Ie.

The Wiccan pentacle, a five-pointed star surrounded by a circle, is not on the list, an omission that the widows say is unconstitutional.

. . .





Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2006 :  16:50:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:

The Wiccan pentacle, a five-pointed star surrounded by a circle, is not on the list, an omission that the widows say is unconstitutional.


I bet the "omission" was intended because the "connection" to the fictional Satanism - Christian Devil worship so common on 1980s heavy metal album covers...

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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2006 :  17:42:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
It's weird that they still don't have the Pagan symbol - I've heard they offer the American Atheist symbol, but I don't have that confirmed. It's a damn shame this has become a big deal. When the widows requested the Wiccan symbol, the military should have immediately added it and obliged. I mean, fuck, these guys died serving our country! The fact that the widows have to sue is just ridiculous.

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2006 :  17:44:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

quote:

The Wiccan pentacle, a five-pointed star surrounded by a circle, is not on the list, an omission that the widows say is unconstitutional.


I bet the "omission" was intended because the "connection" to the fictional Satanism - Christian Devil worship so common on 1980s heavy metal album covers...

And I'll bet that, aside from the cross itself itself, every symbol on that list had to be fought for, tooth-and-nail, by the families of the fallen.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Antigone
New Member

44 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2006 :  14:59:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Antigone a Private Message
If it is the case that the military ommited the pentacle because it 'resembles' the pentagram I find it ironic and a bit humorous. Since the satanist symbol, the pentagram, is basicly the pagan's pentacle turned upside down, then why not ommit the cross, sinse satanists take THAT symbol and turn it upside down?
The symbolism of turning them both upside down is the same, basicly. It is offensive to pagans as I am sure it is offensive to christians.
And isn't it 'prohibiting the free exercise' of their religion? They need to read the 1st Amendment again.


Edited to make the last use of the word 'pagan' plural, I forgot the s at the end in the first post.

Mortui non dolent
Edited by - Antigone on 11/15/2006 15:02:35
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2006 :  15:08:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Even stranger is the fact that the disallowed symbol appears 50 times on every American Flag.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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wombatwal
New Member

Australia
20 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2006 :  21:03:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send wombatwal a Private Message
Wiccan religion, just as good or bad as any other religion.
No religion has a right to be the only one, although plenty say so.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2006 :  21:16:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
I'd want the FSM carved into my headstone.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2006 :  21:43:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Here's the official page listing and illustrating the current "Available Emblems of Belief for Placement on Government Headstones and Markers."


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2006 :  05:24:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Fair's fair, I think:
quote:
Soldiers' widows sue for pagan symbols on headstones
POSTED: 1:26 p.m. EST, November 13, 2006

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The widows of two combat veterans sued the government Monday for not allowing Wiccan symbols on their husbands' military headstones.

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs allows military families to choose any of 38 authorized headstone images. The list includes commonly recognized symbols for Christianity, Buddhism, Islam and Judaism, as well as those for smaller religions such as Sufism Reoriented, Eckiankar and the Japanese faith Seicho-No-Ie.

The Wiccan pentacle, a five-pointed star surrounded by a circle, is not on the list, an omission that the widows say is unconstitutional.

. . .









As much as this pains, and saddens, me to say so. I would have to say, yes. The soldier just gave of his life for his country. I suppose the lest the gov. could do is give him the head stone of his liking? I just read an article last month where MLB has come out with officially licensed team caskets. Yes, you can now be buried in an MLB officially licensed Chicago Cubs casket, if you so choose.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2006 :  06:34:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
There are some Evangelicals targeting the military academies with their preaching and pressure. I imagine it has infiltrated up the ranks. I read about this when looking for Ted Haggard stuff.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4091956.stm



Edited by - beskeptigal on 11/16/2006 06:38:02
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2006 :  09:32:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
One of the things that struck me when looking at that list of Available Emblems of Belief was how many religions I knew nothing about. Another item is how many variations on Christian symbols there were. I didn't see anything for Scientology. Also, IMHO the "Atheist" symbol is ugly. It looks like a warning of buried radioactive waste.

Lastly, I was shocked to find no symbol (a monkey upsetting Libra scales with a sword) for my sect, Latter-Day Darwinism (Punctuated Equilibrium Synod).


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 11/16/2006 09:33:22
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2006 :  09:52:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
Antigone wrote:
quote:
Since the satanist symbol, the pentagram, is basicly the pagan's pentacle turned upside down, then why not ommit the cross, sinse satanists take THAT symbol and turn it upside down?


A pentangle and pentagram are the same symbol. The Satanist version is with teh star with two points up so that they can put the head of a goat inside. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram

Bill wrote:
quote:
As much as this pains, and saddens, me to say so. I would have to say, yes.
Oh, gee, thanks your graciousness. Nice to know you agree with freedom of religion and expression, even if you do make those allowences with a hefty about of smarminess.

Half wrote:
quote:
Also, IMHO the "Atheist" symbol is ugly. It looks like a warning of buried radioactive waste.
I agree. It's too complex and literal, as well as ugly. American Atheists made it up - it is their symbol. I'm glad to see they have the Happy Human on the list - though I'm not sure why it is labled "Emblem of Spirit". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Human

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

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Edited by - marfknox on 11/16/2006 09:54:41
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2998 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2006 :  11:37:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
I would want my symbol to be a closed hand with the middle finger extended - especially if it was because I died during an illegal and immoral war.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 11/16/2006 11:41:11
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2006 :  12:04:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

I would want my symbol to be a closed hand with the middle finger extended - especially if it was because I died during an illegal and immoral war.

One the other hand, if you die in a legal, moral war, you can have the same symbol, but inverted.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Antigone
New Member

44 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2006 :  12:56:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Antigone a Private Message
Marf, there are great symbolic differences between the pagan pentacle and the satanist pentagram. Along with how it is displayed. Pagans have one point up, satanists have one point down. I have seen them sold in stores this way also, both labeled their respective names.
It may be the same shape and proportion, but that means little in way of symbolism. When I was a practicing pagan I would get pissed if I was accused of being a satanist because I was wearing a pentacle, and many other pagans felt the same way. Both pagans and satanists agree on the difference.

Mortui non dolent
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