|
|
|
Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
 Posted - 01/28/2002 : 14:43:32 [Permalink]
|
quote:
I think Slater makes the best point in that pain and its treatment should be evaluated on a patient by patient basis.
The only problem that I -personally- have with pain killers is that they do much more than relieve pain. I can't even say that they actually "relieve" it. They make you feel seperate from it or even make you not care that you are in pain. It's the trade off of mental alertness that keeps me from using them. (At least the type that come without olives on a tooth pick).
The thing you have to understand about chronic pain is that it is NEVER going to go away. So addiction to a drug that would relieve chronic pain is no problem at all. Addictive or no you'll never stop using it.
If being drugged out of your mind is a viable alternative to the level of pain you are in then I say go for it.
-------
The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
 |
|
|
Badger
Skeptic Friend
Canada
257 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 17:05:33 [Permalink]
|
I think you're wrong about addiction to a drug that relieves chronic pain not being a problem in that there can be some aspects of addiction that are harmful. The aspects I am thinking of are such things as the drug becoming the focus of the patients life, and the various destructive behaviours that this may lead to.
It has more to do with the craving, the rush, the release, or other enjoyable side effects of the medication. If a person can be a regularly functioning person while addicted to whatever, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem when granny starts stealing medication from the other residents of the old folks home to get her daily high.
Just a bit of a side note to put my comments in context, I played rugby for 16 years, and so am familiar with pain of both an immediate nature and of a chronic nature. I don't use painkillers because what hurts and how much it hurts hasn't impinged on my life yet.
Just because we're hypnotized, that don't mean we can't dance. - Tonio K. |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 17:39:03 [Permalink]
|
Maybe granny's doctor didn't prescribe enough pain medicine, as Dr. Shari pointed out in the first post.
This reminds me of a book I read a while back, don't remember the name. The author thought that it was ridiculous that we'd outlaw drugs because they lead to crime. Drug-related crimes make about as much sense as girlfriend-related crimes. I stole some earrings for my girlfriend once, does that mean that girlfriends should be illegal?
quote:
I think you're wrong about addiction to a drug that relieves chronic pain not being a problem in that there can be some aspects of addiction that are harmful. The aspects I am thinking of are such things as the drug becoming the focus of the patients life, and the various destructive behaviours that this may lead to.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
|
|
|
Badger
Skeptic Friend
Canada
257 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 19:39:08 [Permalink]
|
Gorgo, I should have emphasiszed that granny steals to "get her daily high", IN ADDITION to not having any or as much pain. I think there is a difference between this and the doctor not prescribing enough medication.
You're talking to a guy who'se on his second marriage, and up to his eyeballs in debt! Of COURSE girlfriends should be illegal! They cause no end of trouble.
Seriously, outlawing drugs is hypocrisy. Dope is illegal because it cut into the cotton barons profits (hemp vs cotton). Other drugs are illegal for a range of reasons from corporate to puritanical, but tobacco and booze are still ok. Go figure.
Stealing in our culture is wrong, though. Doesn't matter to me if it's earrings for your girlfriend or someone's car for a joyride. So if you're intimating that one should look at the act rather than the reason behind it, I agree.
Just because we're hypnotized, that don't mean we can't dance. - Tonio K. |
|
|
|
Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 20:44:21 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Dope is illegal because it cut into the cotton barons profits (hemp vs cotton).
Don't forget companies like Dupont, whose expensive synthetic fibers don't need the competition of a natural, cheap, and durable one...
------------
Sum Ergo Cogito |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2002 : 04:54:26 [Permalink]
|
It's also a racial thing. Opium when they could demonize the Chinese, marijuana for blacks. Now it's a political tool to make prosecutors look good and lock up young black and latino men and other poor people.
quote:
Dope is illegal because
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
|
|
|
Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2002 : 05:19:29 [Permalink]
|
quote:
It's also a racial thing. Opium when they could demonize the Chinese, marijuana for blacks. Now it's a political tool to make prosecutors look good and lock up young black and latino men and other poor people.
I'd call it a financial thing. The opium wars had nothing to do with a distaste for the Chinese themselves (though that certainly existed) and everything to do with the fact that the world's largest market wouldn't open its doors to the Brits.
Marijuana for blacks? Can you be more specific, please?
I agree that the laws are used as a tool for bumping up prosecution/conviction/arrest rates. I don't agree with the blanket contention that it is intended to lock up minorities, though they are the victims of political indifference and malfeasance.
My kids still love me. |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2002 : 06:04:24 [Permalink]
|
Intentionally, no. They are the least able to fight. Blacks are arrested more often and when arrested, are convicted more often, and when convicted, are sentenced more heavily. More later.
quote:
I agree that the laws are used as a tool for bumping up prosecution/conviction/arrest rates. I don't agree with the blanket contention that it is intended to lock up minorities, though they are the victims of political indifference and malfeasance.
My kids still love me.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2002 : 08:02:45 [Permalink]
|
Drugs do not cause theft.
quote:
Gorgo, I should have emphasiszed that granny steals to "get her daily high",
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2002 : 08:09:14 [Permalink]
|
Cocaine for blacks originally. Marijuana was Mexicans, I think?
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax.htm
quote:
Marijuana for blacks? Can you be more specific, please?
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5311 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2002 : 11:17:22 [Permalink]
|
I'll rephrase that. If it wasn't intentional to begin with, it certainly is intentional now as the facts have been out there for years.
quote:
Intentionally, no. They are the least able to fight. Blacks are arrested more often and when arrested, are convicted more often, and when convicted, are sentenced more heavily. More later.
quote:
I don't agree with the blanket contention that it is intended to lock up minorities, though they are the victims of political indifference and malfeasance.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
|
|
|
Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2002 : 11:31:55 [Permalink]
|
Thanks for the link. I'll read it when I've more time. Not my intent to get in a debate on the subject; I have some knowledge but it's not extensive.
My kids still love me. |
|
|
|
VVolfe347
New Member
Canada
22 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2002 : 22:26:48 [Permalink]
|
quote:
As an MD I have faced the quandary of treating pain at the risk of addicting a patient or giving adeqauet relief to a person in pain many times and always it is a fine line. No one should suffer needlessly because in most cases we have more medicines then people have pain but as of yet the best pain meds are also the most addictive. Add to that the safest are also the strongest. Morphine is safer then Vicodin because it has been shown that the acetaminophen in the Vicodin is damaging to your kidneys and liver while plain Morphine is relatively safe.
How to treat pain patients is fraught with perils. The FDA frowns on and prosecutes doctors they consider to be over prescribing controlled substances such as hydrocodone, codiene, Oxycontin etc. Plus when we are generous with our pain medications we are often abused by manipulative patients who are addicts or selling thier prescriptions.
JACHO wants us to consider pain as a vital sign and treat it appropiately yet the DEA has a witchhunt attitude towards doctors that treat pain patients.
Now I add my own medical history to the mix as a terminal cancer patient and damn it I want drugs! Of course I do not prescibe my own though I could. I see a collegue who is a Pain Specialist but I am still treating patients who are asking for pain medications everyday in my office. Does Grandma need more pain pills per month for her arthritis pain? Will what I give her for pain cause her to become confused? Is the back pain patient addicted to his medication so he asks for more or really suffering? I don't know but with the shoe now on the other foot I question more and more if I have been compassionate enough with my ability to relieve pain.
I wish for there was an easy answer.
I suffer both from lower back pain, and rumatory arthritis.
I take nothing.
Well that's not completely true, but I would like it to be. I have several containers of pain medication in my cupboard that will sit there and rot before I use it. The reason I allow myself to suffer is simplely this.
I want to know I am injured.
There were times in the past where when I was taking naproxin that I was unaware that I was causing further injury to my back, and my arthritis got worse before I knew it.
Now, I find it hard in the mourining to get to the bathroom, and sometimes have to crawl, but within a few hours I can function almost normally, and am still aware of the pain, but it does not control me, it helps me stop me from hurting myself more.
JMHO.
Dan Foscarini
"The Blind don't lead the blind, People walk around with thier eyes closed" |
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
