Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Health
 psoriasis
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Next Page
Author  Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

jazgarota
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2007 :  20:16:40  Show Profile Send jazgarota a Private Message
I'm not sure how I found this web site or if anyone will be able to satisfy me. However I am not here to discuss religion, faith or hope. I simply have psoriasis and have tried everything, even the latest most expensive drugs (which is a whole other story on how long it took me to aquire them) I come from a family that believes in alternative medicines. Except until now I'v never inquired into any research on it's connections with psoriasis. Basically I'm fed up with my condition. Any-hoo, I happen to stumble upon this web site and see some of the postigs. Earlier in the day I was feeling like I had some hope of betterment with alternative medicines. However, everyone on here seems to think alternative medicine is a joke. I don't know if any of you have severe ailments of the skin or of any other. I would just like someone to respond to this post simply because I want to know if anyone else thinks alternative medicines are worth a try. Even though I'll probably try them anyway. Humor me Thanks

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2007 :  20:33:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Doctors tend to go into their practice because they want to help people. This is the exact same reason that alternative medicine is excluded from "research based" medicine (Western medicine). Simply put, it doesn't work, and it doesn't help people. Many various forms of medicine have been tested and found lacking.

The placebo effect, thinking that you've done something to make yourself better makes you feel better, is one of the reasons why alternative medicine is so popular. They promise you it will help, and many people believe that it works because they think they feel better. The thing with the placebo effect is it doesn't do squat to a disease, such as psoriasis, which doesn't regress by itself. On the other hand, the placebo effect can have a significant impact on something such as a headache.

But whatever you choose to do, look into it before you try it. Ask a doctor who has knowledge of whatever it is you wish to try. Many alternative medicines can and do cause harm.

If you can provide some information, such as what alternative medicine you wish to try, myself and others here can post much more helpful information.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Go to Top of Page

@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2007 :  21:34:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message
You may have come to the right place. Our editor, Dave W. started a website about psoriasis years ago. You might start here: http://psorsite.com

I have a question that I think is important. What if there is no cure? What will it take for you to accept that, if true? I recently have had some symptoms of psoriasis and have done some reading since I don't have healthcare and the symptoms seem minimal(for now). What I've found is that there is no cure. In such cases there seems to be a neverending supply of hucksters promising a cure. When there is no cure a person can get desperate and why not? Sometimes a treatment or medication is considered to be an alternative because it hasn't been thoroughly tested in the lab. If so, why should anyone be willing to take the risk of trying it, especially if it's expensive. Once you start taking alternative medicines where does it end? The next person promising a cure might not be the liar the last one was...right?

@

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!

Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2007 :  21:39:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Welcome to SFN, jazgarota!

One of our founders, Dave W., is a psoriasis sufferer. He may have some experience to share. (I do seem to recall him mentioning what a feast for quacks psoriasis is.) We also have a few people with a medical background who may have ideas. As for myself, I can offer sympathy and little else, being largely ignorant of the condition. Be sure you come back soon, to check for replies.

In general, skepticism isn't about the disbelief in anything, "alternative" or otherwise; it's about wanting evidence, about applying scientific rather than magical thinking wherever possible. The people here may not be able to steer you to working cures, but they likely will help to arm you against expensive quackery.

Meantime, have you seen the Quackwatch site? If you search for "psoriasis" in the search box at the top right of the main page, you will get a lot of hits on the condition. Good luck!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2007 :  22:10:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
In 1998, people with psoriasis were looking to alternative medicine more than people in any other disease group. It's more than eight years later, and the incidence of psoriasis hasn't dropped. Yet if even just 1% of what the alternative medicine practitioners say about how well they can "cure" psoriasis were true, there wouldn't be anyone walking around with psoriasis today, like you and I are still.

You sound pretty desperate for treatment, jazgarota, and so it's about the worst time for anyone with any sense to humor you. I don't think anyone here is going to blow sunshine up your butt and tell you "alternative medicines are with a try" in such a blanket way. And I'm pretty sure that nobody here is knowledgable enough about any particular "alternative" psoriasis treatment to tell you that it (whatever it might be) is "worth a try."

If you really want discussions with some people who think that alt meds are "worth a try," the forums of the National Psoriasis Foundation (NPF) are probably your best bet. Although I've been an NPF member for years, and will continue to donate to them for their research and educational efforts, I don't make use of their forums (or other services) because the NPF has a policy of trying to avoid saying a bad word about anything, for fear of dissuading people from something that "might work" for psoriasis. I find such an attitude to be patronizing to the members and rather idiotic in light of the research that has been done with regard to psoriasis and some alternative medicines (the more solid the science, the less significant the results, generally).

But I don't think you went to the trouble of registering here at the SFN and posting that message because you simply want people to tell you that alt meds are "worth a try." You know full well that you could have heard that from your family, and probably their friends, and probably one out of three strangers you stop on the street. So why would you beg strangers on the Internet to tell you the same thing?

No matter. Welcome to the Skeptic Friends Network, jazgarota. I hope you find whatever it is you're really looking for, here.

And in response to Ricky:
quote:
The thing with the placebo effect is it doesn't do squat to a disease, such as psoriasis, which doesn't regress by itself.
Actually, psoriasis does go into spontaneous remission. Research years ago suggested that nearly 25% of people with psoriasis had experienced at least one remission for no apparent reason. I am enjoying a partial spontaneous remission right now, wherein the scales are falling off my plaques in droves, and simply not coming back as fast as they normally would. I really should take this opportunity to aggressively treat the raw skin underneath...

Edited to add: HalfMooner, I'm not an SFN founder.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page

Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2007 :  08:13:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
The thing with the placebo effect is it doesn't do squat to a disease, such as psoriasis, which doesn't regress by itself. On the other hand, the placebo effect can have a significant impact on something such as a headache.


Maybe I'm mis-informed but can't psoriasis get worse when you experience high stress.
In such cases, a placebo could potentially reduce stress, and consequently somewhat reduce psoriasis. I bet Dave know more about that, and I appreciate correction should I be wrong.

Of course, "alternative" medicine that works by placebo does not actually treat psoriasis.

jazgarota, western medicine or eastern medicine or "alternative" medicine... putting such labels is not as informative as using "evidence based medicine". That is, medicine that has been tried and tested with proof to show that it works.
Most "Alternative" medications and cures fails to pass this test and is therefore a waste of money.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2007 :  08:57:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Dave W. wrote:
quote:
HalfMooner, I'm not an SFN founder.
And here I was, thinking you were someone special.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2007 :  20:36:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

And here I was, thinking you were someone special.
FEAR MY WRATH...

...oh, sorry.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page

jazgarota
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2007 :  22:24:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send jazgarota a Private Message
Well I sure do appreciate all these replies on my behalf. I would just like to say that I'm not actually looking for alternative treatments from anyone. I myself was researching avenues for natural healing (flax, omega -3's, lecithin and so on...)I have been a member of the National Psoriasis Found. as well. I however found it a waste of my time. The thing is, as I'm sure everyone knows- that is your skin is the largest organ and if something is wrong internally then it will expose itself on the surface of you skin. So I figured if I try to devote some time to what nature supplies and try to balance my ph levels & up my omega 3's & douse myself in some dead sea salts. Just maybe I might be able to see some signs of relief, not cured. I'm currently on enbrel and am not satisfied. So just so you are aware of what it is that I was looking for exactly when I posted my question-I know what my family, friends and doctors think. I thought it was a strange coincidence that I found this site and maybe someone would give me some insight. Not patronize me (dave)
Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2007 :  22:50:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
So I figured if I try to devote some time to what nature supplies and try to balance my ph levels


A note on pH:

Your body very strictly regulates your pH between a range of ~7.35 to 7.45 (as measured in arterial blood).

If you ever did manage to do anything to significantly upset that pH balance, you would probably expire very immediately afterwards.

No food supplement (like calcium tabs) will have an impact on your pH unless you consume far far more than the reccomended ammount, and even then your body will likely compensate back to the expected range in short order.

As for alternate meds.... consult an MD first, run any alternative stuff by that person before you try it, even if just to get their opinion. They may catch something harmfull and be able to give you fair warning. And don't go into it with high expectations, and sure as hell don't go into debt by even a penny to try the stuff.

There are thousands of snake oil salesmen out there, and they will all promise you a cure.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2007 :  23:02:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by jazgarota

The thing is, as I'm sure everyone knows- that is your skin is the largest organ and if something is wrong internally then it will expose itself on the surface of you skin. So I figured if I try to devote some time to what nature supplies and try to balance my ph levels & up my omega 3's & douse myself in some dead sea salts.


Psoriasis is an immune-mediated disease and thus really is from the inside out, but it is the immune system. It is not in any way related to the ph of anything. Also, as Dave Dudepointed out the ph of the body is in constant homeostasis and to disrupt it would be fatal. As for the Omega 3's, high doses can be problematic. The salt baths may provide relief? Maybe Dave would know, but I doubt it could hurt.

Edited to replace Dave with Dude. I miscredited the statement.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
Edited by - Neurosis on 01/15/2007 00:24:55
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2007 :  23:10:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by jazgarota

Well I sure do appreciate all these replies on my behalf. I would just like to say that I'm not actually looking for alternative treatments from anyone. I myself was researching avenues for natural healing (flax, omega -3's, lecithin and so on...)...
Omega-3 fatty acids actually have some research backing them up in the treatment of psoriasis, so long as they are administered via IV. Orally, they don't do much for psoriasis, but overdosing on oral omega-3s can lead to thinning of the blood so bad that if you wind up in an emergency situation you might bleed out if the doctors don't know and administer more blood-thinners as part of treatment.
quote:
I have been a member of the National Psoriasis Found. as well. I however found it a waste of my time.
How so?
quote:
The thing is, as I'm sure everyone knows- that is your skin is the largest organ and if something is wrong internally then it will expose itself on the surface of you skin.
Actually, that's utter nonsense, unless you've got some evidence that cancer, tumors, heart disease, emphysema, diabetes and/or hernias can be diagnosed through looking at a person's skin.
quote:
So I figured if I try to devote some time to what nature supplies and try to balance my ph levels...
If your pH levels weren't "balanced" within a very tight range, you'd be hospitalized or dead already. It seems as though you're quite well-versed in all sorts of garbage "alt med" claims already.
quote:
...& up my omega 3's & douse myself in some dead sea salts.
There's a recipe on my psoriasis website for home-made sea salts. Don't spend the outrageous amount of money on anyone's sea-salt products, especially since they're not going to ship you the pounds of materials necessary to mimic the real thing, but instead just little packets of some mix or other (you won't know if it's right, will you?). The Dead Sea is about 8.6 times more saline than the average ocean, so you'll need to dump over 127 pounds of table salt into a bathtub full of water just to begin to mimic the Dead Sea's contents (most places I remember that sold Dead Sea salts did so in one-ounce packets, so you'll need more than 2,000 of them).
quote:
Just maybe I might be able to see some signs of relief, not cured.
I was pretty sure that you weren't looking for a cure, but many (if not most) of the alt-med practitioners will tell you that they can cure psoriasis. As the old saying goes, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
quote:
I'm currently on enbrel and am not satisfied.
Well, you said you'd tried "everything," and nobody in their right mind would suggest that Enbrel can successfully treat everyone with psoriasis, so what else have you tried? How many different kinds of steroids, coal tar, and UV therapies have you gone through? Goekerman? Methotrexate? Cyclosporin? Retinoids? Dovonex? What other "alt meds" have you tried? Diet? Tanning? Preparation-H? (I guinea pigged myself for that last one.)
quote:
So just so you are aware of what it is that I was looking for exactly when I posted my question-I know what my family, friends and doctors think. I thought it was a strange coincidence that I found this site and maybe someone would give me some insight. Not patronize me (dave)
I don't think it's a strange coincidence at all, considering that on my psoriasis site, I link to this one, and have discussed psoriasis here in the past. I actually think it's odd we don't get more people with psoriasis popping in to the SFN.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2007 :  23:12:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

Also, as Dave pointed out the ph of the body is in constant homeostasis and to disrupt it would be fatal.
Actually, it was Dude that got to that point first. I was busy typing up a novel for jazgarota, and you both snuck in ahead of me.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
Go to Top of Page

Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2007 :  00:28:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

Also, as Dave pointed out the ph of the body is in constant homeostasis and to disrupt it would be fatal.
Actually, it was Dude that got to that point first. I was busy typing up a novel for jazgarota, and you both snuck in ahead of me.



It appears we are hopping around the forums together. I caught my mistake just before you posted it.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
Go to Top of Page

jazgarota
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2007 :  15:56:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send jazgarota a Private Message
I wasn't going to reply this time but oh well. I think it's important that you know what you sound like. COCKY! It's amazing that people want to talk to you. This little time I've spent here has only confirmed what I think of these sites. You're so self absorbed and you have nobody to really listen to you so you post it on you-tube or sfn in hopes to make your self feel better. Your an attention craver. And once again you leave a bad taste in my mouth. I thought I was talking to considerate people who could possibly relate to my situation, though now I realize you just want to boast and not really try to help anyone. Here's a clue- nobody cares how smart you are. I personally think your pathetic. And maybe you'll learn not to take everything at face value. (it's healthy to drink apple cider vinegar for your PH, among other things). When you've read everything the NPF has to offer, you tire. I've done it for years!!! Along with 99% of the other treatments you've listed. I think you're the ingnorant one to assume you know what a person is educated on. Lastly I hope you waste alot of time listing your stank replies to me on this subject. I will never give you the satisfation of coming back here to read them.So reply away!!!!!
-Ps. Did your mother teach you to treat people with such compassion or were you just born rotten.
-Pps. Dear DAVE. Love-Jaz xoxo
Go to Top of Page

@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2007 :  16:09:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message
quote:
I think you're the ingnorant one to assume you know what a person is educated on.

Many of us can tell that grammar is not on the list. That helps narrow it down.

@

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!

Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2  Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.44 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000