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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  13:52:26  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message
YO!

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Video_The_Real_McCain_0129.html

____Yes
____No

OY!

"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty

"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde

"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus

"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus

"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde

Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  14:22:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
I just saw this over at AmericaBlog. It's some interesting stuff, though I'd wager that more politicians are guilty of such things than not. I guess the real problem is that McCain is always portrayed-- especially by the mainstream press-- as a sort of straight-talking maverick who's not afraid to say what he thinks.

But as has been clear for awhile-- at least as far as his views on the religious fundamentalists who have such influence on the Republican Party-- is that he'll now say anything to stay popular and electable.
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  16:27:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message
YO, Cuneiformist.

Senator McCain should always be respected for the ordeal he went through in war, but he's stepped over a political edge that indicates to me the Senator is not as keen on separation of church and state as a true American should be.

These fellows McCain is now embracing want all citizens who don't adhere to their particular brand of evangelism to be second-class citizens, deported or detained in one of those fancy Halliburton-built detention facilities until they know Jesus in the proper, government-sanctioned way.

Soviet Communism in reverse, I'd say.

OY!


"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty

"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde

"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus

"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus

"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde
Edited by - Orwellingly Yurz on 01/29/2007 16:28:09
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  16:54:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Orwellingly Yurz

YO, Cuneiformist.

Senator McCain should always be respected for the ordeal he went through in war, but he's stepped over a political edge that indicates to me the Senator is not as keen on separation of church and state as a true American should be.
But that's the question, OY. Is McCain really now supporting such things, or is this just a sham to win votes. After all, when he ran in 2000, he clearly took a more moderate stance (as we saw in the video). A cynic might say that afte getting beaten by Bush and his faux religious conservative BS, McCain is simply saying what he thinks peopel want to hear in order to win the vote.

The real issue, I think, is that while the media have created a narrative for McCain-- that he's a straight-talking maverick-- reality is quite different. We've seen this before. Once a narrative is created about a candidate, all subsequent news slants to fit said narrative.

Bob Somerby over at the Daily Howler has done a great job of exposing this-- in the linked example, he notes how the press slanted a recent Clinton event as compared with Bush event held back when he was first running. The Bush narrative was always that he was an easy-going guy that everyone likes. The Clinton narrative is clearly that she's a souless calculating manipulator. Soo how virtually the same PR event is slanted to fit those tales.

We've been hearing for years that McCain is a straight talker, but when McCain gets caught in double-talk, will that stop our "liberal" press from continuing the straight-talking maverick image of him?
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  16:56:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
So... He's just as full-o-shit as the rest of the Repubes I've seen. I thought he seemed like a reasonable man when I saw interviews of him speaking out against torture and by other means forcing the truth out of "illegal combatants".

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  17:29:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
Unfortunately for us, I don't think a republican can get elected anymore without brownnosing the religious right…

And lets not forget, Hillary voted for that stupid flag burning amendment…

Strange times we live in.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  18:18:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kil

Unfortunately for us, I don't think a republican can get elected anymore without brownnosing the religious right…

And lets not forget, Hillary voted for that stupid flag burning amendment…

Strange times we live in.


You're right, Kil. Or at least, they've been convinced of this. I'd like to see a Republican who embraced certain fiscal policies that used to be associated with them try to run on that while keeping the religion out of it. Or perhaps that's now what they're calling a "Democrat" nowadays. *Sigh*
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  19:11:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

quote:
Originally posted by Kil

Unfortunately for us, I don't think a republican can get elected anymore without brownnosing the religious right…

And lets not forget, Hillary voted for that stupid flag burning amendment…

Strange times we live in.


You're right, Kil. Or at least, they've been convinced of this. I'd like to see a Republican who embraced certain fiscal policies that used to be associated with them try to run on that while keeping the religion out of it. Or perhaps that's now what they're calling a "Democrat" nowadays. *Sigh*

The wonderful thing for the Democrats about all this is that the Republicans have given up all their serious old "PaleoCon" issues like a balanced budget and states rights, in order to promote an expensive war, and use the presidency to batter states for having progressive policies. Democrats (who were fixing the debt problems under Clinton) can seize such issues.

IMHO, McCain has taken the Iraq war tiger by the tail and now doesn't know how to let it go. And his attempt to flirt with the fundies has missed the peak of their ascendancy. His run for President is doomed, I think. He'll likely get the nomination, if his health holds out, but won't win in the general election. The GOP needs to clean out their NeoCons. Until they do, they'll keep losing.

[Edit: spelling]


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/30/2007 00:05:48
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  22:08:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message
YO!
(quote)
But that's the question, OY. Is McCain really now supporting such things, or is this just a sham to win votes.
(en quote)

OY Sez: It's not a question I'm asking. If he means it, that's enough NOT to vote for him. If he doesn't mean it, but might become successful due to the Falwell crowd's support for saying so, it means he'll owe them PLENTY when he's residing at 1600 PA Ave. And, we all know who owes them SO MUCH these days: the worst president in the history of our nation, I believe.

Bush may go down in history alongside one of our worst vice-presidents...Spiro Agnew.

OY!

"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty

"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde

"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus

"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus

"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  23:08:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message
My biggest problem with McCain, and the one that has me most concerned comes from te McCain-Fiengold reform bill. The loophole that allows the ative American tribes to give without reporting...... That really sunk him for me.

It's going to be a sad showing all the way around I bet.......

Peace
Joe
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  23:10:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Orwellingly Yurz
the Senator is not as keen on separation of church and state as a true American should be.


Please explain how a true American should be.

Peace
Joe
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2007 :  01:24:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message
YO, OI. A true American appreciates the fact that one of the fundamentals of a liberal democracy is freedom of speech and religion. The religion aspect of the First Amendment means that neither church nor government will dictate how citizens choose or choose not to worship. When a citizen selects membership in any religious way, then he or she agrees to the dictates of that prescription of belief.

This is what's kept us alive and going as a democracy for so long; and also allowed for such growth and proliferation of the many religions that have taken root in our country. That's something to be proud of, I think.

Just about everywhere one can see...where there is theocracy there is tumult.

And don't think for one moment if one particular "religion" begins to dictate, through a weak or collaborative government, how everyone should live his or her life in the US, there won't be tumult.

That is not a threat. It's a prediction that will come to pass, if such a mentality takes complete hold of the way our "leaders" try to
govern.

The Founders figured that out for us a long time ago. So, you see, and I'm sure you find it hard to believe, I really am a conservative in terms of what liberal democracy is supposed to do.

High, also, on a liberal democracy's agenda, since the majority wins, is that minorities are protected. Sounds reasonable to me.

I think George W. Bush and his neocon friends are in serious need of lessons, civic and fiscal.

OY!






"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty

"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde

"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus

"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus

"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2007 :  04:36:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
OY: "I think George W. Bush and his neocon friends are in serious need of lessons, civic and fiscal."

I'll supply the rope. But first, we need tar, feathers, and a rail.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2007 :  04:42:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent


Please explain how a true American should be.

Peace
Joe

America has always stood for freedom of and from religion. There have been times like the present where religion has played too prominent a role in government. It doesn't do anyone any good when that happens.

When people seek to spread their beliefs through laws instead of whatever else they do it steps on the rights and beliefs of others.



Edited by - beskeptigal on 01/30/2007 04:43:39
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2007 :  04:45:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
McCain has disappointed me on a number of occasions. He spoke out against Bush's torture practices then caved in with some milktoast compromise.


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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2007 :  06:34:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Orwellingly Yurz
OY Sez: It's not a question I'm asking. If he means it, that's enough NOT to vote for him. If he doesn't mean it, but might become successful due to the Falwell crowd's support for saying so, it means he'll owe them PLENTY when he's residing at 1600 PA Ave. And, we all know who owes them SO MUCH these days: the worst president in the history of our nation, I believe.
Your point is well taken, OY, but since the video was about how McCain-- the "straight talker"-- has in fact switched positions on various issues without blinking, I was trying to point out how our media haven't seemed to figure it out.
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