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 Interview - Chris Hedges - American Fascists
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2007 :  08:24:32  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
Here is a Real Audio format interview with Chris Hedges the author of American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America

He talks about the threat to American democracy posed by Christian Dominionists. He makes an analogy to the rise of Serbian nationalism under Slobovidan Milosovich. He compares the recruiting practices of Mega-Churchs with those of cults.

This helps us understand where Bill and GK Paul are coming from.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson

GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2007 :  14:15:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
A written transcript of (what I believe to be) the same interview can be found here...
quote www.truthdig.com:
Chris Hedges: The Christian Right's War on America

Hedges: I look at the religious right, the radical religious right, those people who want to create a Christian nation, as a mass movement. I don't give them much religiosity at all. I think they have acculturated the Christian religion with the worst aspects of American imperialism and American capitalism. They prey on the despair of tens of millions of Americans in this country who have been completely disenfranchised and shunted aside with the creation of this American oligarchy. That is the engine of the movement. These people, their lives have become train wrecks, their communities have been physically obliterated with the flight of manufacturing jobs, or they live in these soulless exurbs, in places like Orange County, with no community center, no community rituals—you know, they don't even have sidewalks. And they're lonely, and they're alienated, and they're lost. And that's the fodder that demagogues use to amass totalitarian movements. And they do that by offering these people a world of magic, of belief in destiny and miracles and angels, that Jesus has a plan for them. And they essentially remove them from the reality-based world.
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic...

[Hedges] talks about the threat to American democracy posed by Christian Dominionists. He makes an analogy to the rise of Serbian nationalism under Slobovidan Milosovich. He compares the recruiting practices of Mega-Churchs with those of cults.

This helps us understand where Bill and GK Paul are coming from.
People like GK Paul and Bill scott do seem to cling to their silly superstitions and their belief in magical beings, at least in part, out of a sense of fear and desperation. Of course there always have been and always will be some people who are dangerously out of touch with reality. But in this day and age, with such an organized, and apparently successful effort to develop a body of political support made up of the weak and fearful, it's not really surprising that we seem to encounter them so much more often than in the past.
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2007 :  16:45:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:

People like GK Paul and Bill scott do seem to cling to their silly superstitions and their belief in magical beings, at least in part, out of a sense of fear and desperation. Of course there always have been and always will be some people who are dangerously out of touch with reality. But in this day and age, with such an organized, and apparently successful effort to develop a body of political support made up of the weak and fearful, it's not really surprising that we seem to encounter them so much more often than in the past.


When people are scared and feel helpless they need the politicians to help them. These are the same people who need an angel watching over them to drive to the supermarket and can't figure out a real reason to be moral other than an old mistranslated book. Is there any surprise?

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2007 :  18:40:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Really interesting. The idea that Milosevic preached hatred and Serbian nationalism is ludicrous, but otherwise, very good.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2007 :  19:44:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Really interesting. The idea that Milosevic preached hatred and Serbian nationalism is ludicrous, but otherwise, very good.



Milosevic justified his actions by claiming that the constitution of Yugoslavia gave self-determination to people not nations. In other words, he claimed that Yugoslavia could claim self determination so long as it was a Serb nation, but not as a nation. This is the same racist nationalism as Hitler's Germany. What exactly are you arguing with that statement?

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2007 :  00:28:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack

A written transcript of (what I believe to be) the same interview can be found here...[size=1][bq]quote www.truthdig.com:
Chris Hedges: The Christian Right's War on America

Hedges: I look at the religious right, the radical religious right, those people who want to create a Christian nation, as a mass movement. I don't give them much religiosity at all. I think they have acculturated the Christian religion with the worst aspects of American imperialism and American capitalism. They prey on the despair of tens of millions of Americans in this country who have been completely disenfranchised and shunted aside with the creation of this American oligarchy. That is the engine of the movement. These people, their lives have become train wrecks, their communities have been physically obliterated with the flight of manufacturing jobs, or they live in these soulless exurbs, in places like Orange County, with no community center, no community rituals—you know, they don't even have sidewalks. And they're lonely, and they're alienated, and they're lost. And that's the fodder that demagogues use to amass totalitarian movements. And they do that by offering these people a world of magic, of belief in destiny and miracles and angels, that Jesus has a plan for them. And they essentially remove them from the reality-based world.


Different interview - The one I linked to is from the CBC Radio 1 Program "The Current". It takes up about the first 20 minutes of hte segment.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2007 :  05:52:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Really interesting. The idea that Milosevic preached hatred and Serbian nationalism is ludicrous, but otherwise, very good.



Milosevic justified his actions by claiming that the constitution of Yugoslavia gave self-determination to people not nations. In other words, he claimed that Yugoslavia could claim self determination so long as it was a Serb nation, but not as a nation. This is the same racist nationalism as Hitler's Germany. What exactly are you arguing with that statement?



http://www.mediamonitors.net/gowans43.html

"After all, our entire country should be set up on the basis of such principles. Yugoslavia is a multinational community and it can survive only under the conditions of full equality for all nations that live in it."


I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 02/10/2007 05:57:27
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2007 :  07:24:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Really interesting. The idea that Milosevic preached hatred and Serbian nationalism is ludicrous, but otherwise, very good.



Milosevic justified his actions by claiming that the constitution of Yugoslavia gave self-determination to people not nations. In other words, he claimed that Yugoslavia could claim self determination so long as it was a Serb nation, but not as a nation. This is the same racist nationalism as Hitler's Germany. What exactly are you arguing with that statement?



http://www.mediamonitors.net/gowans43.html

"After all, our entire country should be set up on the basis of such principles. Yugoslavia is a multinational community and it can survive only under the conditions of full equality for all nations that live in it."





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2007 :  09:56:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87



Sorry, I admit a quick reading of the link, but I don't see anything which offers evidence that Milosevic "preached hatred and Serbian nationalism." Could you maybe quote that section, or point it out, please?

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2007 :  18:53:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
From, "To Kill a Nation" by Michael Parenti:

quote:
Under the FRY constitution, the will of a republican majority could not override the equally valid will of a constitutent nationality. In other words, the Croatian vote for independence could not negate the rights of the Krajina Serbs within Croatia. The latter had overwhelmingly rejected separatism in a referendum of their own. According to FRY constitutional principles, Croatian independence should have been conditional upon a successful resolution of krajina's competing claim. The same rule applied to Bosnia. All this was completely ignored by Western leaders and their media acolytes, who assumed that while it was outrageous that Muslims and Croats should accept a minority position within Yugoslavia, it was perfectly all right for Serbs to accept a far less secure minority position within Croatia and Bosnia.


quote:
Were the secessions legal under international law, as the Western powers assumed? In fact, the recognition of Slovene, Croatian, and Bosnian independence by the Western Powers "constituted an illegal intervention in Yugoslavia's internal affairs to which Belgrade had every right to object," argue David Tucker and David Hendrickson." ("America and Bosnia," National Interest, Fall 1993, 16-17)

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 02/10/2007 18:54:21
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2007 :  05:26:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
In other words, since Milosevic was trying to keep a multi-ethnic society together in peace, he was "preaching hatred and nationalism."

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 02/11/2007 05:27:10
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2007 :  18:44:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

In other words, since Milosevic was trying to keep a multi-ethnic society together in peace, he was "preaching hatred and nationalism."


No. He believed that peoples groups were self-determing nations. The Yugoslavian wars were over peoples independence. The definition of nationalism is taking your nation to be superior. Therefore, he was a nationalist, and his actions led to extreme nationalism, which was the intended comparison.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2007 :  19:07:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Again, I see no evidence that he thought Serbs were superior. He was trying to hold Yugoslavia together. It was the U.S. and the Germans that funded these nationalist fringe groups who would otherwise have had no chance of success.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2007 :  23:29:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Again, I see no evidence that he thought Serbs were superior. He was trying to hold Yugoslavia together. It was the U.S. and the Germans that funded these nationalist fringe groups who would otherwise have had no chance of success.



See I am not saying that. I simply see the point Hedges was making about inspiring radical behavior like Milosovic did within the people (maybe unintentionally?).

I am just wondering what your point is on Milosovic (if any).

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  04:31:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
My point was addressed in my first post. It's ridiculous to say that Milosevic preached hatred and nationalism. What is your point?

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  23:50:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

My point was addressed in my first post. It's ridiculous to say that Milosevic preached hatred and nationalism. What is your point?



That Milosevic's ideas did inspire nationalism.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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