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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  17:51:40  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
Happy Darwin Day everyone!

I'm doing a multitude of things to celebrate this year's celebration of science and promotion of science education. Since pretty much everyone on SFN is already up on their science, here I give this contribution: http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/rel_evol_sun2007.htm
http://www.thetranscript.com/localnews/ci_5211681

Evolution Sunday has almost twice as much participation this year than 2006 - when it was first started

612 Congregations from all 50 States, the District of Columbia, the US Virgin Islands and five nations are currently scheduled to participate in Evolution Sunday 2007

Personally, I deeply hope this event and similar efforts will flourish. Although I am an atheist, I was inspired by and fascinated by the Theory of Evolution and other scientific discoveries long before I lost my faith in God. Today, I firmly believe that a society must accept and promote science in order to progress and ultimately survive. I do not, however, believe that a society must also become atheistic. Religious differences are insignificant so long as reason is intact where it matters - and science matters!

Oh, and I also like how these Christians really stick it to fundies, saying stuff such as:
quote:
"It's mostly noisy fundamentalists who make it seem like Christians harbor bizarre beliefs about the Earth being only 5,000 years old when we can clearly demonstrate through very simple experiments that it's much older,"


Damnit, I'm on a soapbox again. Anyway, what do my fellow heathens think of Evolution Sunday? Does it make you, like me, cheer? Or just shrug? Wince? Why?

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com


Edited by - marfknox on 02/12/2007 17:54:13

Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  12:15:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox

Happy Darwin Day everyone!

Oh, and I also like how these Christians really stick it to fundies, saying stuff such as:
quote:
"It's mostly noisy fundamentalists who make it seem like Christians harbor bizarre beliefs about the Earth being only 5,000 years old when we can clearly demonstrate through very simple experiments that it's much older,"

Do these people beleive the Bible to be true? Would they say that a donkey talking is bizarre? or do they explain it away as alegorical. I think that science and religion are compatible because both seek the truth. However, There are questions that science asks that the Bible cannot answer and vice versa. To force reconciliation between the Bible and science where they seem to contradict today is dishonest. I believe this is what these people do.

quote:
Damnit, I'm on a soapbox again. Anyway, what do my fellow heathens think of Evolution Sunday? Does it make you, like me, cheer? Or just shrug? Wince? Why?

I think that Christians that spend alot of their time with this are off the mark of what Gods mission for us is. Why spend most of your time reconciling religion and science when children are starving down the road? Jesus never commanded Christians to find out how old the earth is or find out why people lived to 900+ years in the OT.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  12:44:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Jesus never commanded Christians to find out how old the earth is or find out why people lived to 900+ years in the OT.


Maybe because he and they accept(ed) what is written in the bible without question?

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 02/13/2007 12:54:16
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  12:49:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:

I think that science and religion are compatible because both seek the truth.


Please outline the religious method of seeking truth please. I can definitly give you the scientific method.
quote:

However, There are questions that science asks that the Bible cannot answer and vice versa. To force reconciliation between the Bible and science where they seem to contradict today is dishonest. I believe this is what these people do.


There are no answers in the bible actually, just non-answers. There are certainly no answers any better than, 'the sun is pulled sround on a chariot'. When science contradicts the bible, the bible is wrong. If you don't believe that, then explain why the Koran is wrong about Muhammed's journey to discover Allah or why the epic of Gilgamesh is wrong when it claims the City of the God's exists.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  13:37:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

quote:
Jesus never commanded Christians to find out how old the earth is or find out why people lived to 900+ years in the OT.


Maybe because he and they accept(ed) what is written in the bible without question?

I beleive He did. At least Jesus quoted the OT as if it was literal and truthful.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  14:26:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

quote:

I think that science and religion are compatible because both seek the truth.


Please outline the religious method of seeking truth please. I can definitly give you the scientific method.
quote:

However, There are questions that science asks that the Bible cannot answer and vice versa. To force reconciliation between the Bible and science where they seem to contradict today is dishonest. I believe this is what these people do.


There are no answers in the bible actually, just non-answers. There are certainly no answers any better than, 'the sun is pulled sround on a chariot'. When science contradicts the bible, the bible is wrong. If you don't believe that, then explain why the Koran is wrong about Muhammed's journey to discover Allah or why the epic of Gilgamesh is wrong when it claims the City of the God's exists.

I have no proof of God's existence that you would accept. I assume you have read the Bible and have decided to reject it as truth. My post was about people trying to force reconcilliation between the Bible and science by changeing what the Bible or science is telling us. As a Christian, if I cannot explain why science and the Bible contradict then I should admit so.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  14:50:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
I have no proof of God's existence that you would accept.


You have no proof at all, reggardless of who would accept it.
quote:

I assume you have read the Bible and have decided to reject it as truth.


I assume you have read the Quaran and choose it reject it as truth.
quote:

My post was about people trying to force reconcilliation between the Bible and science by changeing what the Bible or science is telling us.


My post was about which one trumps in a conflict. Its science.
quote:

As a Christian, if I cannot explain why science and the Bible contradict then I should admit so.

As a rational person you should accept that science contradicts the bible because the guys that wrote it, had no idea about science.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
Edited by - Neurosis on 02/13/2007 14:51:22
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  16:39:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Robb
I have no proof of God's existence that you would accept. I assume you have read the Bible and have decided to reject it as truth.
Well, I don't reject all of it. Several parts of it are good comments on the human condition, and advice for creating a better world. Parts of it contain genuine (verifiable history).
But just as Spiderman lives in New York, the existance of the city itself is verifiable, but Spiderman is still fiction.

quote:
As a Christian, if I cannot explain why science and the Bible contradict then I should admit so.

This is a commendable attitude. "I don't know" is a perfectly viable answer, and absolutely the most honest answer if you don't know.
Too bad too many Christians I've met cannot be this honest to themselves.


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  21:07:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Mab:
Well, I don't reject all of it. Several parts of it are good comments on the human condition, and advice for creating a better world. Parts of it contain genuine (verifiable history).
But just as Spiderman lives in New York, the existance of the city itself is verifiable, but Spiderman is still fiction.


Spiderman comics also contain some good information on the human conditions serve as fine allegories on occasion, and have a few Peter Parker and villian quotes that one can apply to the daily grind. Let's start a religion over it! After all, it worked for Hubbard.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  21:17:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
Plus Mary Jane.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  21:28:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

Plus Mary Jane.


Oh yes, must not forget the holy virgin(?), Mary. An integral part of Spidermanology.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  08:03:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

You have no proof at all, reggardless of who would accept it.

Party Line

quote:
I assume you have read the Quaran and choose it reject it as truth.
I have.

quote:
As a rational person you should accept that science contradicts the bible because the guys that wrote it, had no idea about science.
I do not look to the Bible for scientific explainations. It is not a science textbook. Why shouldn't I accept the Bible as truth since alot of scientists have no clue about God?

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  08:09:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Well, I don't reject all of it. Several parts of it are good comments on the human condition, and advice for creating a better world.
This is just your opinion, not universal truth.

quote:
quote:
As a Christian, if I cannot explain why science and the Bible contradict then I should admit so.

This is a commendable attitude. "I don't know" is a perfectly viable answer, and absolutely the most honest answer if you don't know.
Too bad too many Christians I've met cannot be this honest to themselves.
This is my position and it does not affect my faith. I get looks at church when I bring this up. Many Christians think that all truth is in the Bible, even scientific truth. My question to them is where are Maxwells equations on magnetism found in the Bible?


[/quote]

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  08:09:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
I could have sworn I posted on this thread earlier...

Anyway I would really prefer having a Science Day as opposed to a Darwin Day, really its only going to add to the whole 'Darwinism as religion' idiocy. That and there are many, many more scientists who deserve as much recognition as Darwin does.

Just dont call it a Holiday, Holiday=holy day.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  08:37:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Robb

quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Well, I don't reject all of it. Several parts of it are good comments on the human condition, and advice for creating a better world.
This is just your opinion, not universal truth.
The biggest difference being: I recognise it's my opinion, and do not present it as Universal Truth. To do so would be dishonest.


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  19:02:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
Robb wrote:
quote:
To force reconciliation between the Bible and science where they seem to contradict today is dishonest. I believe this is what these people do.
If one is to understand much about the Bible at all, one must force many reconciliations between it and science. Rabbits do not chew cud, mustard seeds are not the smallest of seeds, the moon does not produce its own light, and the earth does not have four corners. One absolutely must read the Bible with a huge-ass grain of salt if one is to accept even half of modern science and history while also accepting the Bible as somehow true.

Robb wrote:
quote:
I think that Christians that spend alot of their time with this are off the mark of what Gods mission for us is. Why spend most of your time reconciling religion and science when children are starving down the road? Jesus never commanded Christians to find out how old the earth is or find out why people lived to 900+ years in the OT.

What a cop out! And a bad one at that! Curiosity is part of the human drive. Why do you suppose God gave humans intellect and reason and curiosity, and then put us in a place where over time we'd be able to at least figure out part of the puzzle of the natural world? Maybe part of the reason could be that curiosity leads to discovery, discovery to technology, and much technology is used to help all those people suffering in the world. There are plenty of examples of scientific research that started as pure research with no humanitarian ideas in mind but eventually lead to cures for thousands of people. People should do what they are good at and have a passion for. Only then will they be of much use to anyone else.


"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

Edited by - marfknox on 02/14/2007 19:03:15
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